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Chulin 30

CHULIN 28-30 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.



(a) The Mishnah in Pesachim discusses the La'av of "Lo Sishchat al Chametz Dam Zivchi". Someone who possesses Chametz and who Shechts a Korban Pesach on Pesach ...
1. ... li'Shemo (as a Pesach) is Patur from Malkos - because since a Pesach after the fourteenth of Nisan is not fit to be brought as a Korban Pesach, it is Pasul (and one is not Chayav "Lo Sishchat" on a Shechitah Pesulah).
2. ... she'Lo li'Shemo (as a Shelamim) Chayav - because that is what a Pesach after the fourteenth is fit for.
(b) We extrapolate from the Seifa - that if he had Shechted it S'tam, he would have been Patur ...

(c) ... indicating that it remains a Pesach. Initially, we learn from there - that a Pesach after the fourteenth requires verbal designation ('Akirah', to change it from its original status).

(d) To accommodate even those who hold that normally, a Pesach does not require 'Akirah', Rebbi Chiya bar Gamda, quoting the entire group of Chachamim, establishes the case when - the owner was Tamei on the fourteenth, and was therefore destined to bring the Pesach Sheini, in which case, the lamb stood to be brought then as well, which is why it requires Akirah.

(a) This Beraisa poses a Kashya on Resh Lakish ('Einah li'Shechitah Ela be'Sof') - inasmuch as according to him, after performing part of the Shechi tah on the animal, it is no longer fit to be brought on Pesach Sheini, in which case it stands to be brought as a Shelamim, so why does it need Akirah?

(b) It is not however, Pasul because of Shechitas Pesach she'Lo bi'Zemano (answering our Kashya) - because we are currently speaking according to Resh Lakish, who holds that the beginning of the Shechitah does not have the Din of Shechitah.

(c) Abaye answer this Kashya - by pointing out that even though the partially Shechted animal is no longer fit to be brought as a Korban Pesach Sheini, it is fit to be redeemed (since at some stage before the conclusion of the Shechitah it definitely becomes a Ba'al-Mum), and its money used for a Korban Pesach.

(d) Nor is there a problem of Ha'amadah ve'Ha'arachah (that an animal requires to be stood and assessed before it can be redeemed) on an animal that is virtually Shechted - because as we will learn in ha'Or ve'ha'Rotav' even if one Shechted two Simanim and the animal is still convulsing, it is considered alive, in which case it can still be redeemed.

(a) When Rav Yehudah told Shmuel that Rav permitted a Shechitah that was performed at a few different locations on the neck (i.e. on different rings), he objected - on the grounds that the Shechitah needs to be a 'Shechitah Mefura'as' (a clear-cut Shechitah, in one location).

(b) Resh Lakish learns from the Pasuk "Chetz Shachut Leshonam" - that Shechitah, like the piercing of an arrow, should be in one place (Shechitah Mefura'as).

(c) To reconcile the Mishnah (on the following Amud) which permits two people to Shecht together, even if one Shechts higher up (towards the head) and the other lower down (towards the body), with Shmuel and Resh Lakish, Rebbi Yirmiyah establishes it - when the two people are holding the same knife.

(d) And when the Tana says 'one higher up and one lower down', he means - that they are holding the knife diagonally.

(a) Rebbi Aba queried Rebbi Yirmiyah's interpretation from the Beraisa, which comments on the Mishnah 've'Ein Chosheshin Shema Yitr'fu Zeh al Zeh', which, according to Rebbi Yirmiyah, ought to have said - 've'Ein Chosheshin Shema Yidr'su Zeh al Zeh' (seeing as they are both holding the knife, and that is the only thing we need to be afraid of).

(b) This would not be necessary if the Mishnah was talking about two people with two knives - because then we would be afraid that each one will rely on the other one, with the result that between the two of them, they will fail to cut Rov Simanim (see Tosfos DH 'Dilma Samchi').

(c) Rebbi Avin amended the Beraisa to conform with Rebbi Yirmiyah - to read 'Ein Chosheshin Shema Yidresu Zeh al Zeh'.

(d) Shmuel and Resh Lakish establish the Beraisa cited by Rebbi Avin, which validates a Shechitah where the Shochet Shechted the Veshet lower down and the Kaneh higher up, or vice-versa - where he Shechted the Veshet and the Kaneh diagonally (so that they are cut in one place, and it is a Shechitah Mefura'as).




(a) When they brought Rebbi Yitzchak bar Shmuel bar Marsa an ox that had been Shechted in two or three places, he purchased the best parts and ate them.

(b) Rebbi Zeira commented to him that he clearly disagreed with Shmuel and Resh Lakish - and interpreted the Mishnah that we just discussed 'Shenayim Ochzin be'Sakin ... Shechitoso Kesheirah' by two people and two knives.

(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav invalidates the Shechitah in a case of 'Hichlid bein Si'man le'Si'man' - which means that the Shochet placed the knife in between the Simanim and Shechted the Veshet (which is situated underneath the Kaneh) in a downward direction, before withdrawing the knife and Shechting the Kaneh.

(b) On the other hand, if someone is Machlid, by Shechting the Simanim from under the skin - he declares the Shechitah Kasher.

(c) In a Mishnah later in the Perek, Rebbi Yesheivav declares an animal that was Shechted (upwards) from underneath the Simanim, a Neveilah. Rebbi Akiva - calls it a Tereifah.

(d) In view of that Mishnah, Rav Yehudah Amar Rav is coming to teach us - that the Shechitah is Pasul, even if he Shechts the Veshet in a downward direction, which is how a Shechitah is normally performed.

(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav validates a Shechitah where the Shochet places the knife under the animal's skin and Shechts (Chaladah). bei Rav - is uncertain

(b) They asked what the Din will be if the Shochet Shechts from under a cloth that is tied around the animal's neck (see also Rabeinu Gershom) - whether bei Rav is uncertain about that too, or whether they conceded to Rav Yehudah that the Shechitah is Kasher, since the cloth is not an intrinsic part of the animal.

(c) On the assumption that the cloth is not considered Chaladah, they asked - whether it will be Chaladah if the Shochet places the knife underneath matted wool on the animal's neck and Shechts.

(d) We remain with 'Teiku' on both She'eilos. le'Halachah - we apply the principle 'Safek Isur le'Chumra, and consider the Shechitah Pasul.

(a) Rav Papa asked 'Hichlid be'Miy'ut Simanim Mahu?' This means - that after Shechting the Kaneh and most of the Veshet without Chaladah, he turned the knife and cut the remainder of the Veshet with Chaladah.

(b) Rav Papa is speaking about the Shochet concluding the Shechitah with Chaladah, as we explained. But if he were to begin the Shechitah with Chaladah - then it would be Pasul, no matter what.

(c) In the case of Rav Papa's She'eilah, the Shechitah might be Pasul because it is all one Shechitah. On the other hand, it might be Kasher - because by the time he made Chaladah, the Shechitah, technically, was already completed.

(d) The outcome of the She'eilah - is Teiku (and, as we already explained we rule 'Safek Isur le'Chumra').

(a) In fact - all the other five Pesulim are affected by this ruling.

(b) Consequently, in a case of 'Shachat Sh'nei Shelish Ve'higrim Shelish' (which remained a Safek in the first Perek) - we rule le'Chumra, like the Rabbanan of Rebbi Yossi bar Yehudah (see also Tosfos DH 'Hichlid').

(c) To reconcile this with the Sugya earlier, which validated a case of 'Shachat Chatzi Gargeres Ve'shahah bah, Ve'gamrah', even according to those who hold 'Mechtzah al Mechtzah ke'Rov' (seeing as technically, the Shechitah has already been completed) - we reject this statement as a 'Dochek', and accept the other half of the 'Mah Nafshach' there, that 'Mechtzah al Mechtzah Eino ke'Rov' (based on the conclusion that this is the how we rule).

(a) Our Mishnah rules in a case where ...
1. ... someone Shechts two animals simultaneously - that the Shechitah is Kasher.
2. ... two people hold a knife and Shecht (which we discussed on the previous Amud), even if one is Shechting higher up and one lower down - the Shechitah is Kasher, too.
3. ... the Shochet chopped of the head in one go - the Shechitah is Paul, because of D'rasah.
(b) If he severs the head whilst performing Holachah (moving the knife away from his body) ...
1. ... or Hova'ah (drawing it towards it) - the Shechitah is Pasul.
2. ... and Hova'ah - it is Kasher, provided the knife is at least twice the length of the neck (at the thickest part).
(c) This last ruling applies even if the Shochet is using an Izmal - which is a thin, small razor (in which case he will have to make Holachah and Hova'ah as many times as necessary until he has cut through the two Simanim.
(a) Shmuel learns from the Pasuk "Chetz Shachut Leshonam" - that Shechitah must be performed by drawing the knife (like the motion of an arrow), and not cutting into the neck).

(b) Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael too, learns it from there, but only after first trying to learn it from the Pasuk "Zahav Shachut", initially interpreting "Shachut" to mean - 'flowing' (like smelted gold).

(c) He rejects that interpretation however, finally interpreting "Zahav Shachut" as - the acronym of 'she'Nitveh ka'Chut' (spun like a thread).

(a) After examining an arrow for Rebbi Yona bar Tachlifa - Rava Shechted a bird in flight.

(b) He proved that he had not performed Chaladah - by subsequently ascertaining that the plumage around the neck had been cut.

(c) We learn from the Pasuk "Ve'chisahu be'Afar" (which implies that the blood is placed in the middle of the earth) - that Kisuy ha'Dam entails placing earth both underneath the blood and on top of top of it.

(d) Rava fulfill the Mitzvah of 'Kisuy ha'Dam' - by specifically digging up the field over which the bird that he intended to shoot would fly.

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