ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Chulin 54
CHULIN 51-54 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in
honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.
(a) It is obvious to Rav Bibi bar Abaye, cited by Rav Papi, that the Shi'ur
Derisah of the Veshet is a Mashehu - because that is the Shi'ur of a hole
that renders the animal Tereifah.
(b) The Shi'ur D'risah of the Kaneh is not so obvious however - because the
Shi'ur of a hole there regarding Tereifus, is only a ke'Isar.
(c) Nevertheless, he concludes that the Shi'ur Derisah of a Kaneh is also a
Mashehu - because the animal's venom spreads, burning the area around the
(a) When Rav Yitzchak bar Shmuel bar Marsa gave the Shi'ur Bedikah for
Derusah as the abdominal cavity (like the B'nei Rebbi Chiya on the previous
Amud), Rav Nachman objected - based on Rav's ruling 'mi'Kapa ad Atma'.
(b) By ...
1. ... 'mi'Kapa', Rav meant - from the spoon-shaped skull.
(c) 'Kapa' cannot mean the shoulder blades (including the lungs and the
liver, see Tosfos DH 'Ileima') - because that corresponds to the beginning
of the abdominal cavity, and would render Rav Nachman's objection
2. ... 've'ad Atma' - until the thighs (which corresponds to the end of the
(d) When Resh Lakish and Rebbi Yochanan issued a joint statement along the
same lines as Rav Yitzchak bar Shmuel bar Marsa, and Rav Chiya bar Yosef,
who had just arrived in Eretz Yisrael from Bavel, raised the same objection
as Rav Nachman citing Rav, Resh Lakish reacted - by querying who this 'Rav'
(a) Rebbi Yochanan - reminded him of the Talmid who learned under Rebbi at
the same time as he did ...
(b) ... and what's more - whilst he had to stand, Rav was permitted to sit
down (indicating that Rav was greater than him).
(c) And he described Rav's greatness - by declaring Rav as being a great man
both in his Torah knowledge and in his Chasidus.
(a) Resh Lakish remembered Rav after all. He even quoted his ruling
'Shemutah u'Shechutah Kesheirah' - meaning that if the Gargeres is found to
have slipped as well as having been Shechted, the animal is Kasher ...
(b) ... because had it slipped before the Shechitah, it would have been
impossible to Shecht it because it tends to slide right down the neck (in
which case, it must have slipped after the Shechitah).
(c) Rebbi Yochanan rules - that one makes a cut a slight distance away and
determines whether the first cut was made before or after the Gargeres was
torn out, by comparing the two cuts.
(d) Rav Nachman qualifies Rav's ruling by confining it to where the Shochet
was not holding the Gargeres during the Shechitah, but not to where he was.
(a) Our Mishnah concludes 'Zeh ha'Kelal, Kol she'Ein Kamohah Chayah,
Tereifah'. 'Zeh ha'Kelal' comes to include - the Shev Sh'ma'atsa (that we
discussed at the beginning of the Perek).
(b) The animal whose Gid ha'Nasheh Yosef the hunter's family bludgeoned -
(c) When they asked ...
1. ... Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira whether the animal concerned was Tereifah
or not - he replied that one does not have the authority to add to the
Tereifos listed in the Mishnah.
(d) We reconcile the two above rulings with the fact that the animals died -
by pointing out that had they been administered the right cures, they would
have lived (which is not the case with the Tereifos in our Mishnah).
2. ... Rebbi Aba the same She'eilah concerning an animal whose kidney the
family of Rav Papa bar Aba the hunter had beaten until it died - he gave the
(a) Our Mishnah now lists the defects that are Kasher. These include a
punctured Gargeres, one that is split or one that has a piece missing. An
animal is Kasher even if its Kaneh is ...
1. ... punctured - as long as the Gargeres is not missing a piece the size
of an Italian Isar coin (as Raban Shimon ben Gamliel states).
(b) And it is Kasher even though its ...
2. ... split (lengthwise) - as long as a little remains whole at both ends.
1. ... skull is broken - as long as the membrane that covers the brain
(c) The animal is Kasher even though both the Meses and the Beis ha'Kosos
are punctured - as long as the hole runs from one to the other (since the
food goes from one to the other anyway).
2. ... its heart is punctured - as long as the hole does not reach the
3. ... its spine is broken - as long as the spinal cord remains intact.
4. ... its liver has been removed - as long as a k'Zayis remains.
(d) The Tana declares an animal with a missing spleen, kidneys or womb -
(a) An animal is Kasher if ...
1. ... its lower jaw is detached from the flesh - provided the Simanim are
(b) Rebbi Meir declares an animal whose skin is missing, Kasher. Such a
thing happens - either as a result of boils (a skin disease) or through hard
2. ... its kidney has shriveled up - provided it was caused by a
(c) The Rabbanan declare it - Tereifah.
(a) Rebbi Yochanan learns that 'Eilu Tereifos' is Davka, but Eilu Kesheiros
is not. Resh Lakish says - vice-versa.
(b) They argue over Rav Masna's ruling (one of the Shev Shema'atsa) - that a
thigh-bone that became dislocated renders the animal Tereifah.
(c) According to Rebbi Yochanan, we need 'Eilu' to preclude the animal from
the Din of Tereifah, because we would otherwise have thought - that on
account of its similarity to Netulah, it is included in 'Zeh ha'Kelal', and
(d) According to Resh Lakish, on the other hand, the Tana needs 'Eilu
Kesheiros' to preclude Rav Masna's case from the Kesheiros - because he does
not consider it similar to Netulah; nor is it similar to Nekuvah or Pesukah.
(a) Rava argues with Rav Masna. He declares an animal with a dislocated
thigh-bone, Kasher, though he will agree that it is Tereifah - if the small
nerve that is located on top of the thigh is broken.
(b) The Halachah is however - that the animal is Kasher, unless the nerve
(a) Our Mishnah gives the Shi'ur of a Chesaron in the Gargeres as an Italian
Isar. Ze'iri mentioned a Dinra Kurdina'a (meaning a Dinar from Ararat,
which is approximately the same size) for the benefit of the people of
Bavel, who were not familiar with the Italian Isar.
(b) Similar small size coins (called 'P'shiti') were to be found in -
(c) bar Nafcha (alias Rebbi Yochanan) asked Rebbi Chana the banker for a
Dinra Kurdina'a - in order to measure the Tereifus of the Gargeres with it.
(d) Rebbi Yochanan forbade him to stand up for him - because he maintained
that employees are forbidden to rise before a Talmid-Chacham.
(a) We query Rebbi Yochanan from a Mishnah in Bikurim, which discusses the
entry of a group bringing their Bikurim into Yerushalayim. As they walked
past, all the tradesmen would ...
1. ... rise in their honor?
(b) Rebbi Yochanan resolved the Kashya on himself from this Mishnah - by
extrapolating from the word used in the Mishnah 'Mipneihem' - 'Mipneihem,
ve'Lo Mipnei Talmidei-Chachamim'.
2. ... greet them, adding 'Our brothers, men of such and such a place (they
would arrive area by area), come in peace'.
(c) We refute the proof from there for the maxim 'Gedolah Mitzvah
be'Sha'atah' - by proposing that they stopped work and stood up (even though
one does not do so on any other occasion) - to make them feel good about
their trip, giving them the impetus to come again next year.
(a) Rav Nachman interprets 'ad ke'Isar ha'Italki' (regarding the Shi'ur
Kashrus in our Mishnah) as - up to but excluding an Isar. If it is the size
of an Isar, it is Tereifah (like more than an Isar).
(b) This suggests - that he holds in principle 'Ad ve'Lo ad bi'Chelal' (that
'Ad' is always exclusive).
(c) Rav Nachman is referring to our Mishnah, and not to the Mishnah in 'Eilu
Tereifos' (even though the word 'Ad' is not mentioned there) - because the
term 'Ad' would be inappropriate there; what the Tana would have said is
'Kamah Techsar u'Sehei Tereifah? ke'Isar'.
(a) The Mishnah in Keilim declares Tahor, a rope up to five Tefachim that
still protrudes after a bed (of ropes) has been completed. It is not subject
to Tum'ah ...
1. ... together with the bed - because it is too short to be of any use (and
therefore stands to be cut off).
(b) Rav Nachman will interpret ...
2. ... independently - because a raw material must be either spun or woven
before it becomes subject to Tum'ah.
1. ... the Mishnah in Keilim - to mean up to, but excluding, five Tefachim.
(c) Once the rope reaches a length of five Tefachim - it become fit 1. to
tie the lamb of the Korban Pesach to one's bed-post (to commemorate this
great act of self-sacrifice in Egypt), and 2. to lower the bed into the
Mikvah, should it become Tamei and require Tevilah.
2. ... the continuation of the Mishnah 'me'Chamishah ad Asarah, Tamei' - in
the same way (i.e. up to, but excluding, ten Tefachim).
(d) The excess of ten Tefachim is not however, subject to Tum'ah - because
it is superfluous, and stands to be cut off.