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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Chulin 86

CHULIN 86-90 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.



(a) We ask why Ravin cited Rebbi as having instructed Rebbi Chiya 'Tzei Nechor', and not 'Tzei Terof'. We refute the suggestion that Rebbi holds Shechitah she'Einah Re'uyah Sh'mah Shechitah' - on the basis of Rebbi Yochanan, who just taught us that regarding Kisuy ha'Dam, Rebbi holds ' ... Lo Sh'mah Shechitah', like Rebbi Shimon.

(b) So we answer - that he might well have said 'Tzei Terof', but that he preferred to say 'Tzei Nechor', to teach us that Shechitas ha'Of is min ha'Torah (because had it been mi'de'Rabbanan, Nechirah would have required Kisuy, as we explained).

(a) When Ravin bar Aba (or Rebbi Avin bar Sh'va) said that from the time that the B'nei ha'Golah arrived in Eretz Yisrael, neither did the wine turn sour nor did the linen clothes become moth-infested - he was referring to Rebbi Chiya and his sons, who originated from Bavel.

(b) Rebbi Chiya and his sons also prevented - shooting-stars, earthquakes, storm-winds and thunder-storms (all of which have connotations of curse).

(c) In spite of what we just said, Rebbi Chiya's own linen clothes became infested with moths - because the merit of Tzadikim sometimes helps others, but not themselves.

(d) And we compare this to a statement of Rav Yehudah Amar Rav quoting a daily bas-Kol - that whereas the entire world is fed on the merit of 'Chanina B'ni' (Rebi Chanina ben Dosa), Chanina himself makes do with a Kav of carobs from Erev Shabbos to Erev Shabbos.

(a) Our Mishnah requires Kisuy ha'Dam following the Shechitah of a 'Chashu' - provided they Shechted under supervision.

(b) The other area of Halachah that is affected by this condition is - that of Oso ve'es B'no (at least, according to Rebbi Meir, as we shall now see).

(c) If they Shechted the mother without supervision, Rebbi Meir permits the Shechitah of the child. Whether the Shechitas 'Chashu' was performed with supervision or not - the Chachamim forbid the child.

(d) The Chachamim do concede to Rebbi Meir however - that the person who does Shecht the second animal, does not receive Malkos.

(a) The problem with the Chachamim, who argue with Rebbi Meir in the Seifa of our Mishnah is - why they do not also argue in the Reisha?

(b) We initially suggest that, in the Reisha, the Rabbanan will agree that if there is no supervision, the blood will not require Kisuy - because if it would, people would think that the Shechitah must have been Kasher, and will take their cue from there to eat the animal.

(c) In the Seifa, on the other hand, they do not, by the same token, permit Shechting the child - because not Shechting the child will not lead to any sin, since people will merely think that its meat is not required.

(d) We refute the Kashya that in the Reisha too, people might well say that he is only covering the blood in order to keep his yard clean - by countering that they will certainly not say that in a case where he Shechts into a trash-heap.

(e) And we counter the second counter-argument, that in a case where the owner comes to ask whether he needs to cover the blood or not, nobody will think that either - by asking the same Kashya on the Seifa, that if he comes to ask whether he is permitted to Shecht the second animal or not, nobody will think that he is not Shechting the second animal because he does not need its meat.

(a) So we finally explain that the Rabbanan do not specifically argue with Rebbi Meir in the Reisha - because they were waiting for him to finish his statement before disputing both the Seifa and the Reisha.

(b) The Rabbanan consider the Shechitah of a 'Chashu' to be a Shechitah mi'Safek le'Chumra) - whereas Rebbi Meir considers it Vaday Neveilah (even le'Kula).

(c) In fact, Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan declares - that according to Rebbi Meir, anyone who eats from the Shechitah of a 'Chashu' is Chayav Malkos ...

(d) ...due to the fact that most of their deeds are defected, as Rebbi Ami explains.

(a) Rav Papa asked Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua (some say the other way round) why Rebbi Ami requires a majority, because even a Miy'ut will be sufficient - since Rebbi Meir is 'Chayash le'Miy'uta' (takes the minority into account) ...

(b) ... not because a Miy'ut is stronger than a Rov - but because we combine it with any prevalent Chazakah ...

(c) ... such as the Chazakah of 'Eiver min ha'Chai' in our case.

(a) Rav Papa's Kashya is based on Rebbi Meir in a Mishnah in Taharos, where Rebbi Meir declares Tahor a piece of dough that a child is holding in his hand, as he plays beside a large dough. The ...
1. ... Miy'ut there is the fact that some children do not play in the trash-heap and are not therefore Tamei.
2. ... Chazakah which combines to render the dough Tahor is - the Chezkas Taharah of the dough.
(b) The Chachamim, who go after the majority - declare the dough Tamei.

(c) Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua replied to Rav Papa - that Rebbi Meir only relies on a Miy'ut to permit a Safek Tum'ah, but not to permit a Safek Isur (i.e. to Shecht the second animal after a 'Chashu' Shechted the first one).




(a) Rebbi issued two contradictory rulings - one like Rebbi Meir (in our Mishnah) and one like the Rabbanan.

(b) We set about resolving the problem - by trying to discover which was the latter ruling.

(c) When Rebbi Ami found Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba and Rebbi Zeira standing outside the Beis-Hamedrash in the main street of Caesaria - he reminded them that he had already instructed them before not to stand outside the Beis-Hamedrash, in case they were needed inside to resolve any problems that might arise there.

(d) Rebbi Zeira entered, whilst Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba remained outside.

(a) When, upon entering the Beis-Hamedrash, Rebbi Zeira heard them discussing precisely our She'eilah 'Hei Minaihu Achrita' - he declared what a pity it was that he could not ask Rebbi Aba (who apparently, had already departed) what his father said about the matter.

(b) He thought that Rebbi Aba might solve the problem - because his father, Rebbi Chiya bar Aba, used to review all his learning in front of Rebbi Yochanan (who was the greatest authority in Eretz Yisrael at the time) every thirty days.

(c) We finally resolve the She'eilah from the message that Rebbi Elazar sent to the b'nei Golah - that Rebbi ruled like Rebbi Meir (ignoring his other ruling like the Chachamim, which must have been stated first).

(a) The Tana Kama of our Mishnah rules that - one Kisuy will suffice to cover the blood of ...
1. ... a hundred Chayos or birds that one just Shechted.
2. ... a Chayah and a bird that one just Shechted.
(b) Rebbi Yehudah, based on the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos (in connection with Kisuy ha'Dam) "Chayah *O* Of" - rules that one must first cover the blood of the Chayah, and then Shecht the bird.

(c) The Rabbanan counter Rebbi Yehudah's proof, because they learn from "O" - 'Lechalek' (that one is even Chayav to cover the blood of either a Chayah or a bird, and not specifically when one Shechts both).

(d) Rebbi Yehudah disagrees with that - because *he* learns 'Lechalek' from "Ki Nefesh Kol Basar *Damo* be'Nafcho Hu".

(a) The Rabbanan prove from the Lashon of the Pasuk there "Ki Nefesh *Kol Basar* Damo be'Nafsho Hu" - that "Damo" also implies the blood of many animals.

(b) According to Rebbi Chanina, Rebbi Yehudah agrees with the Rabbanan that the Shechitah of a Chayah and of a bird are considered like one - in respect of the fact that after covering the blood of the Chayah, it is not necessary to recite a fresh B'rachah over the Shechitah of the bird.

(a) Ravina (or Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava) queries Rebbi Chanina from an episode that occurred with the Talmidim of Rav, who had just finished their meal, and who asked Rav Yeiva Saba (who was serving them), after informing him that they wished to Bensch - to bring something to drink.

(b) Following their latter request, Rav Yeiva Saba, quoting Rav, commented - that having declared their intention to Bensch, it was forbidden to eat or drink, without reciting the appropriate B'rachah.

(c) Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava (or Rav Ashi) reconciles Rebbi Chanina with Rav - by differentiating between 'Hav Lan u'Nevarech' which is a Hefsek, and requires a fresh B'rachah before continuing to drink - because it is impossible to Bensch and drink simultaneously, and the Kisuy ha'Dam of a Chayah, which is not a Hefsek - since it is possible to cover the blood of the Chayah with one hand, and Shecht the bird simultaneously with the other.

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