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Chulin 93

CHULIN 92-95 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.



(a) We query Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel's statement permitting Cheilev that is covered by Basar from another statement of Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel, quoted by Rebbi Aba. where he forbids the Cheilev under the loins (which is actually the top section of the Cheilev which he just declared Mutar).

(b) Abaye reconciles this with the previous statement by pointing out that 'Beheimah be'Chayehah Piruki Mifreka' - by which he means that when the animal walks, the loins move upwards (and the flanks downwards) so that, at that point, they are not covering the Cheilev, which therefore falls under the category of Cheilev that is not covered by Basar, and is Asur.

(c) As his source, he quotes Rebbi Yochanan, who - maintained that even though he was neither a Shochet nor the son of a Shochet, he remembered that this was what they said in the Beis-Hamedrash.

(a) Rebbi Aba Amar ... Shmuel also rules - that the Cheilev on the Meses and the Beis ha'Kosos - is Asur and punishable by Kareis.

(b) The Torah refers to it as - the Cheilev which is on the Kerev.

(c) And he also says the same about the Cheilev on the 'K'libusta' (a small bone above the hip-bone, which is joined to the vertibrae that form the tail) ...

(d) ... which the Torah refers to as - Cheilev which is on the Kesalim.

(a) When Rebbi Aba ... Amar Shmuel further forbade the sinews in the shoulders, Rav Safra objected on the grounds - that (they do not contain Cheilev and) the Torah does not forbid meat.

(b) Rava however, upheld Rebbi Aba's ruling - because the Torah did not permit blood either.

(c) Consequently - if one cuts and salts them, they are permitted.

(d) Rav Safra refers to Rebbi Aba as 'Moshe', as does Rava to Rav Safra. 'Moshe' means - Talmid-Chacham (see Mesores ha'Shas).

(a) The Shi'ur of an Amah regarding the beginning of the intestines that Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel gives - is the distance that is one is obligated to scrape away all traces of Cheilev, from the point that they emerge from the Keivah.

(b) This Cheilev is also known as 'Cheilev she'al ha'Dakin', which is important to know - because it is the Cheilev over which Rebbi Yishmael and Rebbi Akiva argue in Eilu T'reifos (see Gilyon ha'Shas).

(a) Rav Yehudah - declares Asur the sinews that branch out from the Ukatz (part of the spinal cord where it becomes the tail-bone, also known as the 'Chuti de'Kafli' [thesinews of the flanks]).

(b) Three sinews branch out from the right (i.e. nearer the tail) - and two from the left (nearer the head)?

(c) The three sinews eventually merge into two, and the two - into three.

(d) The ramifications of this statement are - that that is how many sinews one needs to search for and dig out (as far down as the ribs at the foot of the chest cavity) should this become necessary ...

(e) ... which it will not be - if one pulls them removes them whilst they are still still hot, when all the sinews comes out intact.

(a) Abaye (or Rav Yehudah) lists - five sinews.

(b) The sinews of the spleen, the flanks and the kidneys are forbidden because they contain Cheilev, and those in the shoulder and in the jaw - because they contain blood.

(c) The difference between them is - that latter can be rectified (as we just exlained), whereas the former cannot.

(d) Abaye does not include the blood-vessels in the neck (the jugular veins) - because they are large, and Abaye lists only the small ones.

(a) Rav Kahana (or Rav Yehudah) lists - five membranes that are not Kasher.

(b) The distinction that he draws between those of the spleen, the flanks and the kidneys on the one hand, and the Beitzim of a male and the brain on the other is - that the former are Asur because of Cheilev, and the latter, because of blood.

(a) When Rav Yehudah bar Oshaya, in the process of peeling a spleen Levi b'rei de'Rav Huna bar Chiya, peeled only the thick part where it is joined to the Keres and the Cheilev, the latter instructed him - to carry on peeling.

(b) When Levi's father came in and saw this, quoting Levi's maternal grandfather (Rebbi Yirmiyah bar Aba), he commented -that only the membrane that is on the thick part is forbidden.

(c) Levi refuted this however, on the basis of a statement by Rav Hamnuna, who, quoted a Beraisa - forbidding the membrane that covers the spleen, but rendering Patur (from Kares or a Chatas) whoever eats it.

(d) He cannot have been referring to the membrane that covers the thick part of the spleen - because why would he then be Patur?

(e) Levi b'rei de'Rav Huna bar Chiya's father - had nothing to say except 'I Tanya, Tanya' (meaning that he cannot argue with a Beraisa).

(a) The Beraisa quoted by Rav Hamnuna rules that the membrane that covers the kidney - is Asur, though one is not Chayav a Chatas for eating it (be'Shogeg).

(b) The Beraisa 'Ein Chayavin Alav' is referring to - the Cheilev of both the spleen and the kidneys.

(c) We reconcile this with the Beraisa which rules that one is Chayav for ...

1. ... the Cheilev of the spleen - by establishing the latter by the thick part (as we explained earlier), and the former, by the remainder of the spleen.
2. ... the Cheilev of the kidneys - by establishing the latter with regard to the actual Cheilev that covers the kidneys, and the former, with regard to the membrane beneath it.



(a) Rav Ami and Rav Asi argue over Bei'i de'Chashilta - (the Beitzei Zachar of an animal). One of them considers them 'Eiver min ha'Chai' (even though the animal has been Shechted [see Tosfos DH 'mi'de'Lo ka'Baryan']), the other one does not.

(b) The one considers them Eiver min ha'Chai, because once wounded, they do not heal, the other does not - because they do not decompose.

(c) The ...

1. ... first opinion explains that they do not decompose - because they are not exposed to the air.
2. ... second opinion explains that they do not heal - on account of their weakness.
(d) Despite the fact that Rebbi Yochanan conformed with the opinion that permits them, he instructed Rav Sh'man bar Aba not to eat them - because that was the Minhag of his home town (see Tosfos DH 'Mishum'), and the Pasuk in Mishlei "ve'Al Titosh Toras Imecha" teaches us the prohibition of contravening local Minhag.
(a) Mar bar Rav Ashi permitted the Beitzim of kid-goats without peeling off the membrane, up to thirty days after their birth - because up to that time, the little blood that has developed becomes absorbed inside the limbs.

(b) 'Kid-goats' - is La'av Davka. The ruling applies equally to lambs and calves.

(c) The Beitzim remain permitted even after that - as long as they do not contain Zera (semen).

(d) And this in turn, one can tell - if their are no red dots visible.

(a) Rav Acha and Ravina argue over 'Umtzi, Bei'i u'Mizreki' (raw meat, Beitzei Zachar and the sinews of the shoulder) which will be discussed shortly. Generally, the pattern is - that whenever these two Amora'im dispute, Ravina is le'Kula, and we rule like him.

(b) In this case - *Rav Acha* is le'Kula, and we rule like *him*.

(c) We rule that a piece of raw meat which turned red ...

1. ... may be cooked as long as - it has been cut open and salted, and the same applies to one which ...
2. ... they suspended over the fire on a spit-rod.
(a) Ravina and Rav Acha argue - over a case where they placed the raw meat on burning coals. Rav Acha permits it, Ravina forbids it.

(b) Rav Acha explains that the heat of the coal draws out the blood, whereas Ravina argues - that on the contrary, it causes the flesh to contract, retaining the blood inside.

(c) And they argue over - exactly the same point in respect of 'Bei'i and Mizreki'.

(a) We rule that the head of an animal that one places on top of ashes (whilst removing the hair) is ...
1. ... permitted - if it is placed on the location of the Shechitah (to allowing the blood to drain).
2. ... forbidden - if it is placed on its side, because then the blood congeals.
(b) If one places it on its nostrils - then it is permitted only if one pierces a hole in them (allowing the blood to drain); otherwise not.

(c) We have already discussed the inner and the outer Gidin earlier. Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel rules that ...

1. ... the inner Gid, which he describes as being close to the bone - is Asur and is subject to Kareis.
2. ... the outer Gid, which, he says, is close to the flesh - is Asur, but is not subject to Kareis (because it is only Asur mi'de'Rabbanan).
(d) We reconcile this with the Beraisa, which describes ...
1. ... the inner Gid as being close to the flesh - by explaining that when it reaches the Basar it actually enters it (like a key going into a lock ['Akludi Aklid']).
2. ... the outer Gid, as being close to the bone - by restricting that to the top end of the Gid, where the thigh separates from the hip-bone.
(a) Rav Yehudah gives the Shi'ur Chashivus of Cheilev that one discovers after the Shochet (who used to be responsible for the Nikur [porging] as well) has declared it Kasher, as the size of a barley (ki'Se'orah). According to Rebbi Yochanan - it is a k'Zayis.

(b) Rav Papa reconciles the two opinions - by establishing Rav Yehudah with regard to removing the Shochet from his Shechitah post, and Rebbi Yochanan with regard to giving him Malkos.

(c) Mar Zutra establishes Rav Yehudah - where the Cheilev is found in one location, and Rebbi Yochanan, where it is found in a two or three of locations (for which he would not be penalized if this occurred with a Shi'ur of a 'ki'Se'orah)

(d) The Halachah is - like Rav Yehudah.

(a) When Rav Nachman, objecting to Rebbi Chiya bar Rabah Amar Rebbi Yochanan's statement (regarding Rebbi Meir in our Mishnah 'Ein Ne'emanim Lomar ... ') 'Chazru Lomar Ne'emanim', he asked 'Achshar Dara', he meant - that if initially, they ruled like Rebbi Meir, who did not believe the Shochtim regarding the removal of the Gid, why would they later permit it, seeing as the generations hardly became more reliable.

(b) We refute Rav Nachman's objection however - by ascribing the original ruling to the fact that we initially followed the opinion of Rebbi Meir, who requires the complete removal of the entire Gid (which is a very difficult operation), and the revised ruling to the fact that we changed our minds to rule like Rebbi Yehudah, who only requires the removal of what is visible (as we learned earlier).

(c) Others learn Rebbi Chiya bar Aba's statement with regard to the Chachamim, who say 'Ne'emanim Alav ... ', in which case Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Rebbi Yochanan said 'Chazru Lomar Ein Ne'emanim'.

(d) Bearing in mind our original Kashya 'Achshar Dara?', we ascribe Rav Nachman's ruling (that nowadays, we hold 'Ne'emanim') - to the fact that we rule strictly like Rebbi Meir, whereas originally, when they changed to 'Ein Ne'emanim', it was (not because they were less trustworthy, but) because they still recalled the first ruling, like Rebbi Yehudah, to whose opinion some Shochtim continued subscribing. And it was only they had forgotten about Rebbi Yehudah, that Rav Nachman ruled 'Ne'emanim'.

(a) In our Mishnah, the Chachamim rule 'Ne'emanim Alav ve'al ha'Cheilev'. We answer the Kashya 'Cheilev Ma'an Dakar Sh'meih' - by adding 'Cheilev' to Rebbi Meir's statement, which now reads 'Ne'emanim Alav ve'al ha'Cheilev'.

(b) The problem with selling a complete thigh to a Nochri might be - that the Nochri can re-sell it to a Yisrael, who, unaware that it still contains the Gid ha'Nasheh, will innocently eat it.

(c) Our Mishnah nevertheless permits it - because it is easy to see that it has not been removed.

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