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Chulin 105

CHULIN 104-105 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.



(a) Beis Shamai in a Beraisa require Kinu'ach (cleaning out one's mouth) between cheese and meat. Beis Hillel require - Hadachah (rinsing with water).

(b) We prove from Rebbi Zeira, who rules that one is obligated to clean out one's mouth with bread - that the two rulings cannot be exclusive of each other, because then he would be ruling like Beis Shamai.

(c) The problem with then explaining that Beis Shamai require only Kinu'ach, whereas Beis Hillel require Hadachah as well is - that if that were so, then this Machlokes ought to be included in Rebbi Yossi's list of cases where Beis Shamai is lenient, and Beis Hillel strict, whereas in fact, it is not).

(d) So we finally explain - that Beis Shamai mentions only Kinu'ach and Beis Hillel, only Hadachah, though each one really requires both, in which case, Rebbi Zeira goes according to Beis Hillel, too.

(a) Initially, we qualify Rebbi Zeira ('Ein Kinu'ach Ela be'Pas'), by precluding barley bread from his ruling - since it merely crumbles in the mouth.

(b) Even ...

1. ... wheat bread will not be eligible however - if it is warm.
2. ... cold, wheat bread not be eligible either - if it is hard.
(c) Wheat bread that is ...
1. ... warm is not eligible - because it just becomes soft and sticks to the palate.
2. ... hard is not eligible either - because like barley bread, it just crumbles in the mouth.
(d) We rule however - that everything is eligible for Kinu'ach except for flour, dates and vegetables.
(a) Rebbi Asi was surprised when Rebbi Yochanan, in answer to his question how long one has to wait between meat and cheese, replied 'not at all' - because Rav Chisda had stated that although one is required to wait between meat and cheese, one is not required to wait between cheese and meat.

(b) Consequently, when Rebbi Yochanan said not at all - he must have been referring to waiting between cheese and meat.

(c) Following Rav Chisda's statement, Rav Acha bar Yosef asked him whether one needed to wait until the meat that is stuck between the teeth has been removed.

(d) He replied by citing the Pasuk (in the Parshah of the quails) "ha'Basar Odenu bein Shineihem" - a proof that meat that is stuck between the teeth is still called meat (in which case one does).

(a) Mar Ukva, whose father used to wait twenty-four hours between meat and cheese, claimed that he was 'vinegar the son of wine' in this matter - by which he meant that (like vinegar compared to wine), he was less Chashuv in this regard than his father, because he only used to wait until the next meal (hence the Minhag to wait six hours [see also Tosfos DH li'Se'udasa']).

(b) Likewise, Shmuel considered himself 'vinegar the son of wine' compared to his father, when it came to inspecting his property. His father, used to examine his property twice a day, whilst he would do it only once.

(c) The purpose of this inspection - was to see what needed fixing and rectify the problem immediately.

(d) Shmuel declared that someone who inspects his property every day - will find an Astira (a silver coin).

(a) Abaye, who faithfully followed Shmuel's advice, was on one his rounds when he came across his resident gardener - walking off with a bundle of cut wood that he was in the process of stealing from the field.

(b) When Abaye confronted him, he claimed - that he was taking them to Abaye's house ...

(c) ... but he responded - by teaching the fellow that the Chachamim (Shmuel, in this case) were cleverer than him.

(d) Rav Asi too, followed Shmuel advice, but for a long time, he failed to find any coins. Until one occasion when he came across a stream that passed by his field, whose waters were gushing through a hole in the wall, threatening to swamp his fruit. Stopping the hole with his coat, he shouted for help, until people came and repaired the breach, causing him to exclaim that he had just found all of Shmuel's coins.

(a) Rav Idi bar Avin referred to Mayim Rishonim (before eating bread) as 'Mitzvah', and to Mayim Achronim - as Chovah ...

(b) ... which is greater.

(c) Rav Idi bar Avin explains that the Beraisa refers to them both as 'Chovah' - only in contrast to 'Reshus', a term which the Tana use in connection with Mayim Emtza'ayim ...

(d) ... which refers to the voluntary washing of the hands between the courses.

(a) The Beraisa permits washing Mayim Rishonim even on to the floor, though Mayim Acharonim - requires a receptacle.

(b) Others say that one should not wash Mayim Acharonim on to the floor - though one may do on to a pile of twigs, for example, even though there is no receptacle (which is crucial according to the first Lashon).

(c) The Tana permits washing Mayim Rishonim with cold or hot water, but Mayim Acharonim - only with cold, since hot water only soften the hands and causes the waste from the food to become absorbed into the hands (instead of washing it away, as it supposed to).




(a) Rav Yitzchak bar Yosef Amar Rebbi Yanai qualifies the Beraisa, which permits Mayim Rishonim even if they are hot - restricting 'hot' to where it has not reached the stage of 'Yad Soledes Bo' (which scalds the hands) because then it is no longer called 'water'.

(b) In the second Lashon, the qualification pertains to the Seifa, which forbids washing with Mayim Acharonim when they are hot. According to this Lashon - one is permitted to wash Mayim Rishonim even if the water has reached Yad Soledes Bo.

(a) 'Emtza'ayim Reshus'. Rav Nachman qualifies this statement - by confining it to washing between meat or milk courses. But washing between cheese and meat, is considered a Chovah even though it takes place in the middle of the meal).

(b) Rav Yehudah b'rei de'Rav Chiya attributes the status of Chovah to Mayim Acharonim to Melach Sedomis. which require Netilas Yadayim after it - because if it gets into one's eyes. it causes blindness.

(c) It was not very common though - only one grain per Kur (thirty Sa'ah), according to Abaye.

(d) When Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava asked Rav Ashi whether it was necessary to wash Mayim Acharonim after *measuring* Melach Sedomis, he replied - in the negative.

(a) Initially, Abaye ascribed the prohibition of ...
1. ... pouring the Mayim Acharonim on the floor to the dirt and the waste which the water washes off the hands (and which renders it disgusting), until Rabah told him - that it was due to the Ru'ach Ra'ah (the evil spirit, which can cause harm to a person or an animal who drinks it).
2. ... taking something from the table from on front of someone who is already holding his cup in his hand to drink, to the fear that someone at the table might become upset and choke over his drink, until Rabah told him - that it was because it causes his mind to become dazed.
(b) The latter prohibition only applies under three conditions; the first is that one does not replace whatever one takes, the second that one takes it at least four Amos away from the table, and the third - that the article that he takes is needed for the meal.

(c) Mar bar Rav Ashi took this last condition very far, in that - he was careful not to even take from the table a mortar and pestle (for grinding spices), even though it was not food.

(a) Initially, Abaye attributed people clearing away the crumbs after the meal to cleanliness, until Rabah informed him - that not doing so leads to poverty.

(b) The angel in charge of poverty had trouble in catching a certain man who, for some reason, his blood (or rather his money) he was after -because he was meticulous in clearing away all crumbs after the meal.

(c) He once thought that he had him in his clutches - when he ate out in the meadow, since it is extremely difficult to clear away all the crumbs from the grass.

(d) However, after he had finished eating - the man actually tore out the grass (together with the crumbs) and threw it into the river.

(e) And he heard the angel cry out in frustration - 'Woe to me, for that man has thrown out of his house' (meaning that he had nothing to do there).

(a) Initially, Abaye thought that people avoided drinking the froth on beverages because it is disgusting, until Abaye told him that - doing so causes secretions from the nose ...

(b) Blowing it aside causes headaches, and pushing it aside with one's hand - poverty.

(c) One gets rid of it safely - by pushing it down into the beverage until it dissolves.

(d) The antidote for nose secretions that result from drinking the froth of wine is to drink beer, whereas the antidote for nose secretions that result from drinking the froth of ...

1. ... beer is - to drink water.
2. ... water - is non-existent ...
(e) ... which, bearing in mind that it is the poor man who drinks water, because he cannot afford other beverages) gives rise to the popular saying - 'Poverty chases the poor man'.
(a) Rabah disillusioned Abaye, who thought that people refrain from eating vegetables still tied in the way that they purchased them, because it looks like gluttony (since they cannot wait until they have been untied) - by informing him that it leaves the person who does so prone to spells.

(b) Rav Chisda and Rabah bar Rav Huna reacted when ...

1. ... a witch entered the boat on which they traveling, and asked them to allow her to sit with them - by refusing.
2. ... she cast a spell, preventing the boat from moving - by employing sorcery (or perhaps Names of Hashem) to enable it to continue on its way.
(c) There were three things, the witch declared ruefully, that Talmidei-Chachamim did, which prevented her from casting a spell on them. 1. they did not clean themselves (after relieving themselves), using a piece of earthenware; 2. they did not kill lice on their clothes, and 3. - they did not eat vegetables from a bunch before untying them.

(d) Rabah also told Abaye, who thought that people refrain from ...

1. ... eating vegetables that have fallen on the table, because they are disgusting - that the real reason is - because it causes them to leave a foul smell in the mouth.
2. ... sitting underneath a drain-pipe, because of the sewage that might fall on them from the pipe - that it us because of Mazikin (demons), who like to sleep underneath drain-pipes
(a) When a case was brought before Mar bar Ashi, where some porters rested with the barrel of wine that they were transporting, underneath a drain-pipe, and the barrel split- he placed the demon responsible in Cherem.

(b) Mar bar Rav Ashi reduced the sentence to payment - when the demon claimed that he had no choice, seeing as one of the porters had lain down on his ear. He did not however, absolve him altogether - because it was a public domain, and he had no right to sleep there in the first place.

(c) The demon asked for - time to pay, and this was granted.

(d) He nevertheless justified his late arrival - in that demons are forbidden by law to take anything that they find that is wrapped, sealed or measured (only what is Hefker), which made it extremely difficult to come up with the goods on time.

(a) Abaye initially thought that the reason for the custom to pour out some water from the top of a barrel, was because of the little splinters of wood and straw that float on top of the barrel, until Rabah taught him - that it was because of 'bad water' (from which a demon has drunk [and for which pouring out a little is the remedy]).

(b) The demon in Rav Papa's house - actually served Rav Papa.

(c) He once took longer than expected to fill a barrel from the local river - because he waited for all the demons to finish drinking, to prevent 'bad water' from entering the barrel.

(d) But when he saw Rav Papa pouring out a little water from the top of the barrel - he declared that had he known that he would do that, he would not have bothered to wait.

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