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Chulin 15

CHULIN 14-15 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the fourth Yahrzeit of her father, Reb Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Weiner), who passed away 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Talmud study during the week of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.


(a) Finally, Rav Ashi connects Rav's statement (forbidding the Shechted animal for the duration of Shabbos), with the Beraisa concerning someone who cooks on Shabbos. If he did so be'Shogeg, Rebbi Meir permits the sinner himself to eat the Shechted animal on Shabbos.
What does he say in a case where he Shechted it be'Meizid?

(b) What does Rebbi Yehudah hold ...

  1. ... in the case of Shogeg?
  2. ... in the case of Meizid?
(c) Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar holds by Shogeg like Rebbi Yehudah just learned by Meizid.
What does he hold in the case of Meizid?

(d) What is Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar's reason in the case of ...

  1. ... Shogeg?
  2. ... Meizid?
(a) What has Rav Ashi now proved from this Beraisa? How does our Mishnah then speak, be'Shogeg or be'Meizid?

(b) On what grounds does Rav establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah be'Shogeg, and not like Rebbi Meir be'Meizid?

(a) If the Tana is speaking be'Shogeg, how will we explain the Mishnah 'Af-al-Pi she'Nischayav be'Nafsho'?

(b) Why did Rav not then establish the Mishnah like Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar, who forbids the animal to be eaten both be'Shogeg and be'Meizid?

(c) And how do we know that when Rav said 'Asur ba'Achilah le'Yoma', he was not referring exclusively to the sinner, but others (according to Rebbi Meir, be'Meizid, and according to Rebbi Yehudah, be'Shogeg) will be permitted to eat it?

(a) Who is the author of the Beraisa cited by a Beraisa expert 'ha'Mevashel be'Shabbos be'Shogeg, Yochal; be'Meizid, Lo Yochal'?

(b) What was Rav's reaction to this Beraisa?

(c) On what logical grounds do we decline to attribute Rav's reaction to the fact that he holds like Rebbi Yehudah?

(a) In any case, Rav does not hold like Rebbi Yehudah, as we learned from a statement of Rav Chanan bar Ami.
According to Rav Chanan bar Ami, what did Rav (with regard to 'ha'Mevashel be'Shabbos') ...
  1. ... teach his Talmidim in private?
  2. ... Darshen in public?
(b) Perhaps the Beraisa expert cited the Beraisa in public, at the time of Rav's D'rashah, and that was why Rav objected?

(c) How does Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak therefore amend the Beraisa in question?

(a) On what basis will Rebbi Meir differentiate between 'ha'Mevashel be'Shabbos' and 'ha'Shochet be'Shabbos'? How does this explain Rav's objection to the Beraisa?

(b) What problem do we now have with the B'nei Yeshivah establishing our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah?

(c) How do we establish the Mishnah, in order to answer this Kashya?

(d) Then why does Rebbi Yehudah forbid it?

Answers to questions



(a) We base the distinction that we made between 'ha'Mevashel be'Shabbos' and 'ha'Shochet be'Shabbos' on a statement cited in the name of Rav. What did Rav say about ...
  1. ... meat that was cooked on Shabbos for a sick person?
  2. ... an animal that was Shechted on Shabbos for him? When did he fell ill in both cases?
(b) What reason did he present for this distinction?

(c) Rav Papa points out that sometimes, the two rulings are reversed. In which case will a healthy person be ...

  1. ... permitted to eat from an animal that was Shechted for a Choleh on Shabbos?
  2. ... forbidden to eat a pumpkin that was cooked for him on Shabbos?
(d) On what grounds do we reject the suggestion that the pumpkin was detached, and that it was Muktzah because pumpkins are too hard to eat raw?
(a) Rav Dimi from Neherda'a permits a healthy person to eat an animal that is Shechted on behalf of a Choleh who was sick already before Shabbos.
What does he rule with regard to him eating from the food that was cooked for the same Choleh?

(b) Why the difference?

(a) What does our Mishnah say about someone who Shechts using ...
  1. ... the smooth blade of a Magal-Yad (a double-bladed cutting instrument, one of which is smooth, the other, which contain notches), a sharp rock, or a reed?
  2. ... a sickle or a saw?
(b) Which other two objects does the Tana include in the latter list?

(c) What reason does the Tana give for this latter ruling?

(a) What does the Lashon 'ha'Shochet' imply?

(b) Why does the Tana not permit Shechting Lechatchilah with a Magal-Yad?

(c) What can we extrapolate from here regarding a very long knife which has notches along the minor part of its length?

(a) What does the Beraisa say about Shechting with a piece of rock, a piece of glass or the sharp side of a cane?

(b) How do we establish both our Mishnah and the Beraisa, to reconcile it with our Mishnah, which permits Shechting with a rock and a reed only Bedieved?

(c) The Mishnah conforms with the opinion of Rebbi Chiya in a Beraisa.
What does Rebbi say there with regard to Shechitah that is performed with Mechubar?

(a) What does another Beraisa say about Shechting with a knife, irrespective of whether it is Talush or Mechubar, whether it is on top and the animal underneath, or vice-versa?

(b) What problem does this Beraisa create with what we just said?

(c) We answer by establishing the author of the latter Beraisa as Rebbi Chiya.
Then why does he argue with Rebbi in the previous Beraisa with regard to Bedi'eved?

(d) Why does that leave us with a Kashya on our Mishnah?

(a) We therefore establish our Mishnah like Rebbi, who permits Mechubar Bedi'eved.
What is the problem with this?

(b) To answer this Kashya, we establish Rebbi in the Beraisa by a regular kind of Mechubar.
What kind of Mechubar is he then referring to in our Mishnah?

(c) And we substantiate this distinction with a Beraisa.
What does the Tana there say about someone who Shechts with a knife that is attached to a windlass or to the ground, or with a knife that one stuck into a wall?

(a) In the previous cases, how does one Shecht the animal, seeing as the knife is immobile?

(b) Why does the Tana see fit to mention the last case? What is he coming to teach us?

(c) And what does the Tana say about Shechting with a rock that juts out from a wall or with a cane that grew out of the wall by itself?

(d) How do we reconcile this latter ruling with the Reisha, which validates a Shechitah that is Mechubar le'Karka? Who is the author of the Beraisa?

Answers to questions

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