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Chulin 16

CHULIN 16 - This Daf has been sponsored by Dr. and Mrs. Shalom Kelman of Baltimore, Maryland, USA. May Hashem bless them with long years filled with Torah, Chidushei Torah, and Nachas!


(a) We just cited the Beraisa validating Shechitah that is performed with a wheel.
How do we establish this Beraisa and the Beraisa which invalidates it even Bedi'eved, in order to reconcile them?

(b) How might we reconcile the two Beraisos even if they are speaking about a water-wheel?

(a) We base the previous distinction on a statement of Rav Papa.
What did Rav Papa say about Reuven who ties up Shimon before killing him, by diverting a stream of water to flow over him?

(b) And we establish Rav Papa's statement by 'Ko'ach Rishon'. On what basis is he Chayav by Ko'ach Rishon?

(c) How do we define 'Ko'ach Sheini' in this case?

(d) What is the basis for the distinction between the first flow and the second one?

(a) What had Rav asked Rebbi that caused the latter to quote the Pasuk in Vayeira (in connection with Akeidas Yitzchak) "Vayikach es ha'Ma'acheles Lishchot es B'no"?

(b) Where was Rebbi Chiya sitting when this session took place?

(c) Rebbi Chiya disagreed with Rebbi, as we learned above. What did he mean when ...

  1. ... he said to Rav 'Vav a'Apusa ka'Amar'?
  2. ... they asked him how he interpreted the Pasuk that Rebbi quoted, and he replied 'K'ra Zerizuseih de'Avraham Kamashma-Lan'?
(d) How will we alternatively explain ...
  1. ... Rav's querying of Rebbi's reply?
  2. ... the question 've'Ha K'ra ka'Amar'? Who asked it?
(a) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Re'ei "Eloheihem al he'Harim"?

(b) What does Rava therefore prove from Rav's ruling that someone who prostrates himself to his house renders it Asur?

(c) What is the Din regarding be'Chi Yutan' (Hechsher Mayim), if a person is pleased when he sees that rain has filled his ...

  1. ... Keilim?
  2. ... pit?
(d) Why the difference?
(a) What does the Mishnah in Machshirin say about someone who places an overturned dish on a wall, in order ...
  1. ... that the rain should wash it?
  2. ... to protect the wall from getting wet?
(b) What opposite inferences can we make from the two cases in the Mishnah, regarding a person who places an overturned dish in a position that deflects the rain on to a wall in order to wash it?

(c) Rebbi Elazar resolves the contradictory inferences with 'Tavra, Mi she'Shanah Zu Lo Shanah Zu'.
What is the basis of the Machlokes? How does this connect with Rava?

(a) Rav Papa disagrees with Rebbi Elazar (and with Rava), establishing the entire Mishnah like one Tana.
What does that Tana hold vis-a-vis Talush ve'li'Besof Chibro?

(b) How does he then establish the Reisha?

(c) Why is the water not Muchshar Lekabeil Tum'ah, even if someone dug the cave manually?

(d) How does Rav Papa change the format of the Beraisa?

Answers to questions



(a) Rava now asks what the Din will be by 'Talush ve'li'Besof Chibro' with regard to Shechitah. What do we try to prove from the Beraisa (which we cited earlier) 'Hayah Tzur Yotzei min ha'Kosel, O she'Hayah Kanah Oleh Me'eilav, Ve'shachat, Shechitaso Pesulah'?

(b) How do we ...

  1. ... refute this proof?
  2. ... substantiate the refutation?
(c) And how do we refute the proof from the same Beraisa ...
  1. ... 'Na'atz Sakin be'Kosel ve'Shachat Bah, Shechitaso Kesheirah' (that Talush ve'li'Besof Mechubar is considered Talush)?
  2. ... 'bi'Mechubar le'Karka, Shechitaso Kesheirah'?
(a) How does Rav Anan Amar Shmuel qualify the Beraisa that we just quoted 'Na'atz Sakin be'Kosel ve'Shachat Bah, Shechitaso Kesheirah'? In which case will it be Pasul?

(b) Why is that?

(c) How does Rav Z'vid reconcile Rav Anan with the Beraisa, which validates the Shechitah, irrespective of whether the knife is below and the neck of the animal on top, or whether the knife is on top and the neck of the animal, below (even assuming that the Tana is speaking about the neck of an animal)?

(d) How does Rav Papa answer the Kashya, without having to come on to 'li'Tzedadin'?

(a) Rav Chisda Amar Rebbi Yitzchak (or a Beraisa) lists five things that one should not do with a K'rumis shel Kanah (the sharp edge of a cane). Besides Shechitah, Milah, and cutting meat, which other two things does the Tana include in his list?

(b) What is Rav Chisda's reason for prohibiting these things?

(c) How does Rav Papa reconcile this with the Beraisa, which specifically permits Shechting with a 'K'rumis shel Kanah', as we learned earlier?

(a) On what grounds would ...
  1. ... Rav Papa cut the innards of fish with the sharp edge of a cane?
  2. ... Rabah bar Rav Huna use it to cut a bird into pieces?
(b) What did Mar say about someone who uses anything flammable to wipe himself clean?

(c) How does Rav Papa then explain Rav Chisda's need to forbid cleaning oneself with the sharp edge of a cane (seeing as we already know it from Mar)?

(a) We learned in our Mishnah 'ha'Kol Shochtin u'Le'olam Shochtin'.
What does 'ha'Kol Shochtin' mean?

(b) Why do we need a Mishnah to teach us that?

(c) Initially, Rabah ascribes 'Le'olam Shochtin' to Rebbi Yishmael. How does Rebbi Yishmael in a Beraisa interpret the Pasuk in Re'ei "Ki Yarchiv Hashem ... es Gevulcha Ve'amarta Ochlah Basar"? What is the Pasuk coming to teach us?

(d) Why do we need a Pasuk to teach us this? Why might we have thought otherwise?

(e) What happened to someone who ate Basar Ta'avah in the desert?

(a) What problem does Rav Yosef have with this explanation from the Lashon 'Le'olam Shochtim'? What should the Mishnah have said?

(b) What other Kashya does he ask on Rabah? Why would the Mishnah be superfluous, according to his explanation?

(a) So Rav Yosef ascribes 'Le'olam Shochtim' to Rebbi Akiva. What does Rebbi Akiva learn from the Pasuk in Re'ei "ki Yirchak Mimcha ha'Makom ... Ve'zavachta mi'Bekarcha u'mi'Tzoncha"? What is the Pasuk coming to teach us?

(b) What would we otherwise have thought?

Answers to questions

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