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Chulin 17


(a) The Machlokes between Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi Yishmael is two-fold. What does ...
  1. ... Rebbi Akiva hold regarding Basar Ta'avah?
  2. ... Rebbi Yishmael hold regarding Basar Nechirah?
(b) What does Rebbi Akiva then learn from the Pasuk ...
  1. ... "ve'el Pesach Ohel Mo'ed Lo Hevi'o"?
  2. ... "be'Chol Avas Nafshecha Nafshecha Tochal Basar" (if not to teach us the Heter of Basar Ta'avah)?
(c) Seeing as the Pasuk "ve'Chi Yirchak ... Ve'zavachta" is speaking about Pesulei ha'Mukdashin, how can Rebbi Akiva learn the Chiyuv Shechitah by ordinary Chulin from there?
(a) According to Rebbi Yishmael, perhaps the Pasuk inserts "Ve'zavachta ... " in the Pasuk of Ki Yirchak Mimcha ha'Makom", because it is natural to do so when speaking about eating meat.
What do we also learn from ...
  1. ... "Ve'zavachta Ve'achalta"?
  2. ... "ki Yirchak ... Ve'zavachta"?
(b) How does Rebbi Akiva, who maintains that Shechitah only became a requisite after they entered Eretz Yisrael, account for the Pasuk ...
  1. ... in Vayikra (in connection with the Korban Olah) "Ve'shachat es ben ha'Bakar"?
  2. ... in Beha'aloscha (in connection with the quails) "ha'Tzon u'Vakar Yishachet Lahem"?
(a) What does the Mishnah say in Kisuy ha'Dam about covering the blood of a Chayah that has been improperly Shechted, that was torn open or whose Si'manim were torn out?

(b) Why does this pose a Kashya on Rebbi Akiva?

(c) What do we answer?

(a) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Re'ei (in connection with Pesulei ha'Mukdashin)"Ach Ka'asher Ye'achel es ha'Tzvi ve'ha'Ayal Kein Tochlenah"?

(b) How will Rebbi Yishmael explain this Pasuk, which implies that Tzvi ve'Ayal could be eaten in the desert as Chulin?

(a) What does Rebbi Yirmiyah ask with regard to limbs of Basar Nechirah that Yisrael brought into Eretz Yisrael from the desert?

(b) What is the point of the She'eilah? What difference does it make?

(c) What problem do we have with that, based on the Pasuk in Re'ei "u'Batim Mele'im Kol Tuv"? How does Rebbi Yirmiyah bar Aba interpret this Pasuk?

(d) Then to which period does it pertain?

(a) We conclude that in fact, it might even pertain to the seven-year period of 'Kibush').
How do we reconcile this with "u'Batim Mele'im Kol Tuv"?

(b) What is the outcome of the She'eilah?

(a) We explained the statements in our Mishnah 'ha'Kol Shochtin' (to include birds), and 'Le'olam Shochtin' (to preclude Basar Nechirah after going into Galus).
What do we still need to explain?

(b) On what grounds does Rava object to the suggestion that 'ba'Kol Shochtin' comes to include a detached rock, a piece of glass or the sharp edge of a reed?

(c) Rava accepts the original suggestion with regard to 'ba'Kol Shochtin'.
How does he establish ...

  1. ... the two 'ha'Kol Shochtin' (in the first two Mishnahs)?
  2. ... 'Le'olam Shochtin'? Which four cases does it incorporate?
(a) Why did Shmuel's father make notches in Shechitah knives and send them to Eretz Yisrael?

(b) After he had done this two or three times, they sent him a message 'like a saw'.
What did they mean by that?

Answers to questions



(a) What does the Beraisa say about a knife that has many notches?

(b) In the event, however, that it has only one, then if it is Ogeres, it is Pasul; Mesuchseches, it is Kasher (Bedi'eved).
How does Rebbi Elazar describe ...

  1. ... Ogeres?
  2. ... Mesuchseches? Why the difference?
(c) We ask that even Mesuchseches ought to be Pasul.
Why is that?

(d) How do we establish the case, so that it should be Kasher? How long must the knife be?

(e) Why is Mesuchseches then Pasul Lechatchilah?

(a) What makes a sickle, which Beis-Hillel validate (even though it is full of notches [as we will learn in the next Mishnah]), provided one Shechts only in the direction going against the notches, better than Mesuchseches?

(b) Rava lists three kinds of knives, an Ogeres, a Mesuchseches (which we have already discussed) and an Oleh ve'Yored.
What is 'Oleh ve'Yored?

(c) What does Rava rule there?

(d) And how does Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua reconcile his ruling that Mesuchseches is Pasul, with the Beraisa that renders it Kasher?

(a) Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Ivya asked Rav Ashi about a knife that is like a Sa'as'ah (a beard of wheat).
What did he mean by that?

(b) What did Rav Ashi answer?

(a) What does Rav Chisda learn from the Pasuk in Shmuel "u'Shechat'tem ba'Zeh"? About whom is the Pasuk speaking?

(b) Why must the Pasuk be referring specifically to the Bedikah before the Shechitah?

(c) What reason does Rebbi Yochanan give for the obligation to examine the Shechitah knife before the Shechitah?

(d) How do we then reconcile Rav Chisda's source with Rebbi Yochanan?

(a) In Eretz Yisrael (which is very sunny), they used to examine a knife in the sun, and in Neherda'a (where there was more water than sunshine), they examined it in water. This might mean holding the knife up to the sun, and skimming the tip of the knife along the water and looking out for ripples.
What else might we mean by ...
  1. ... 'ba'Shemesh'?
  2. ... 'be'Maya'?
(b) Rav Acha bar Ya'akov would run a hair along the length of the knife. In Sura, they would examine the knife with flesh.
What does this mean? Why did they do that?

(c) Rav Papa is the strictest of all. Which two Bedecks does he require?

(d) Ravina asked Rav Ashi whether, what Rav Sama b'rei de'Rav Mesharshaya quoted him as saying in the name of Rava, was correct.
What did the latter purportedly say?

(a) In reply to Ravina's question, Rav Ashi conceded to part of the quotation, but denied part.
According to one Lashon, he denied having added 'a'Telasa Ruchsa'. What did he deny having said, according to the second Lashon?

(b) What did Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava do when Rav Ashi handed him a knife to examine?

(c) Rav Kahana agreed with Rav Ashi's comment.
Which comment?

(a) Rav Yeimar however, disagreed and Rav Kahana, on the basis of a ruling of Rav Zeira Amar Shmuel (that we already cited earlier).
What did he say, that clashes with the opinion of Rav Ashi and Rav Kahana?

(b) How does the ruling of Rav Ashi and Rav Kahana clash with Rebbi Zeira?

(c) Like whom is the Halachah?

Answers to questions

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