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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Chulin 19

CHULIN 19-20 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the fourth Yahrzeit of her father, Reb Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Weiner), who passed away 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Talmud study during the week of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.


(a) What objection did Rav Chanan bar Ketina raise, when Rav Nachman validated 'Shiyer be'Chiti' up to the Shipuy Kova?

(b) Rav Nachman replied that he knew nothing about 'Chilak' or 'Bilak'. What did we initially interpret this to mean?

(c) Based on a Sugya in Cheilek, however, we reject that explanation.
What do the terms appear to mean there?

(d) Rav Nachman bases his ruling on a statement in the name of Rebbi Yochanan (Rebbi Chanina or Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi).
What did he say?

(a) What did Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi say about the Mugremes of ...
  1. ... the Rabbanan?
  2. ... Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah?
(b) Why is Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi's statement not obvious?

(c) Indeed, how do we know that Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos is not referring to the statement of the Rabbanan ('u'Mugremes Pesulah') that precedes it?

(d) On what grounds do we rule like Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos?

(a) Rav Huna Amar Rav Asi confines the Machlokes between Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan to where the Shochet Shechted two thirds inside the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and one third outside.
What is then the basis of their Machlokes?

(b) In which case will Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah concede that the Shechitah is Pasul?

(c) Rav Chisda asked Rav Huna why he did not learn the other way round. What did he mean by that? In which case would they then be arguing?

(d) What will the Rabbanan hold in the previous case (where he first Shechted two thirds inside the Taba'as, and one third, outside)?

(a) In the current version of the Machlokes, Rebbi Yossi be'Rebbi Yehudah learns his ruling from 'Chatzi Kanah Pagum'.
What does he prove from there?

(b) In that case, why will Shechting the difference between a third and the majority not suffice (like in the case of 'Chatzi Kanah Pagum', where the broken half-Si'man combines to the Mashehu Shechitah)?

(c) And how do the Rabbanan counter this?

(a) What does Rav Chisda prove from the Mishnah in Perek ha'Shochet 'Rubo shel Echad Kamohu'?

(b) How does Rav Yosef refute ...

  1. ... this proof?
  2. ... Abaye, who asks whether the author of every Rov in Shas is Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah?
(c) How will Rav Yosef explain the Rabbanan in our Mishnah, who say 'M'lo ha'Chut al P'nei Kulah'?
(a) In the second Lashon, Rav Huna Amar Rav Asi establishes the Machlokes when the Shochet Shechted the first third beyond the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and the remainder within it, as Rav Chisda learned in the first Lashon.
On what grounds does Rav Chisda now argue with Rav Huna? How does he refute Rav Huna's proof from the Mishnah 'Rubo shel Echad Kamohu'?

(b) In a case where the Shochet first Shechted a third beyond the Makom Shechitah, a third inside, and the last third outside again, Rav Huna Amar Rav declares it Kasher.
Why is that?

(c) How will we reconcile Rav Huna with his previous ruling, where he declared Tereifah even where the Shochet Shechted one third outside the Makom Shechitah and two thirds inside?

(d) What does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav say? Why is that?

(e) What did Rav Yehudah Amar Rav rule in the reverse case (where one Shechted a third inside, a third outside and a third inside)?

(a) Regarding the current case, what did Rav Huna do that made Rav Yehudah angry?

(b) What was Rav Huna's response? Besides the fact that the majority of the animal was Shechted, how else did he justify Rav Yehudah's anger'?

(c) Why did Rav Chisda advise Rav Huna not to retract? What would he have stood to lose if he had?

(d) What did Rav Chisda therefore conclude?

Answers to questions



(a) What She'eilah did they ask Rav Nachman, when he arrived in Sura?

(b) He tried to resolve it from a statement by Rebbi Elazar bar Minyumi. What did Rebbi Elazar bar Minyumi say about a Shechitah which resembles a comb? What did Rav Nachman try to prove from there?

(c) If, as they replied, the Beraisa is talking about a Shechitah which takes place all inside the Makom Shechitah, what is the Chidush?

(a) Where was Rebbi Aba sitting when Rebbi Kahana asked Rav Yehudah a series of She'eilos?

(b) What did Rav Yehudah rule when Rav Kahana asked him what the Din will be in a case of ...

  1. ... Shachat Shelish Ve'higrim Shelish Ve'shachat Shelish?
  2. ... Higrim Shelish Ve'shachat Shelish Ve'higrim Shelish?
(c) He then asked him about Shachat be'Makom Nekev and Shachat u'Paga be'Nekev.
What is the meaning of 'Shachat ...
  1. ... be'Makom Nekev'?
  2. ... u'Paga be'Nekev'?
(d) What did Rav Yehudah rule in both of the latter cases?
(a) What did Rebbi Elazar do when Rebbi Aba informed him of Rav Yehudah's rulings?

(b) How did Rebbi Elazar explain the difference between the two rulings to Rebbi Yochanan?

(c) Rebbi Yochanan disagreed with his explanation regarding 'Paga be'Nekev' however.
What did he exclaim when he heard it?

(d) Rava later concurred with Rebbi Yochanan.
What distinction did he draw between an Akum finishing the Shechitah and 'Paga be'Nekev'?

(a) What does our Mishnah say about Shechting an animal from ...
  1. ... the side of the neck?
  2. ... the back of the neck ('Mul Oref')? Why is that?
(b) Seeing as Shechting an animal from the side of the neck is permitted Lechatchilah, why does the Tana use the Lashon 'ha'Shochet', implying Bedieved?

(c) And what does the Tana say about performing Melikah on a bird of Kodshim in the same two locations?

(d) Why is the Melikah ...

  1. ... Pasul in the first case?
  2. ... not Pasul in the second (in the same way as it is Pasul regarding an animal)?
(a) What does the Tana say about Shechting and performing Melikah from the Tzavar (the front part of the neck)?

(b) What problem do we have with the Mishnah 'ha'Shochet min ha'Oref, Shechitaso Pesulah' (if taken literally)?

(c) So how do we interpret 'min ha'Oref'? How do we prove it from the Seifa?

(a) What does the Beraisa learn from the Pasuk in Yirmiyah ...
  1. ... "Ki Panu Eilai Oref ve'Lo Panim"?
  2. ... "ve'Hu Yoshev mi'Muli"?
(b) How do the B'nei Rebbi Chiya describe the Mitzvah of Melikah?

(c) What are the two ways of interpreting their statement?

(d) We prefer to say 'Af Machzir', because we learned in our Mishnah 'ha'Shochet min ha'Oref, Shechitaso Pesulah, ha'Molek min ha'Oref, Melikaso Kesheirah'.
What do we prove from there? What would be the problem if we held Machzir Davka?

Answers to questions

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