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Chulin 38

CHULIN 37-40 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.


(a) Rav's Talmidim told Shmuel that they had learned from Rav three new definitions of Pirchus in the case of a Mesukenes. Two of them are that the animal lows or defecates during the Shechitah.
What is the third?

(b) How did Shmuel react to this information?

(c) According to him, anything that an animal does not normally do in its death-throes is considered Pirchus. To explain this, what distinction did Rav Anan draw between a Mesukenes that withdraws its stretched-out leg during the Shechitah and one that initially stretches out its leg?

(a) What can we extrapolate from our Mishnah 'Beheimah Dakah she'Pashtah Yadah ve'Lo Hichzirah, Pesulah'?

(b) In that case, what is Shmuel coming to teach us?

(a) What does ...
  1. ... Rebbi Yossi say in a Beraisa in the name of Rebbi Meir about a Mesukenes that lows whilst it is being Shechted?
  2. ... Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Yossi say in his name even if it defecates or twitches its ear?
(b) How do we now reconcile Rav with ...
  1. ... Rebbi Yossi?
  2. ... Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Yossi?
(a) According to Rav Chisda, the Pirchus must take place at the end of the Shechitah.
What does he mean by that?

(b) How does he try to prove that from our Mishnah 'Beheimah Dakah she'Pashtah Yadah ... '

(c) On what grounds does Rava refute Rav Chisda's proof?

(a) According to Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak, a Mesukenes requires Pirchus only at the beginning of the Shechitah.
How does he prove it from Rebbi Shimon in our Mishnah 'ha'Shochet ba'Laylah u'le'Machar Matza Koslim Me'le'im Dam, Kesheirah, she'Zinkah ... '?

(b) Why is this proof only valid according to Shmuel, who interprets 'Koslim' to mean the neck of the animal? What would we have said had 'Koslim' meant the walls of the abattoir?

(c) Based on Rebbi Eliezer in our Mishnah 'Dayah im Zinkah', how do we refute the suggestion that Zinuk is a stronger kind of Pirchus (and that other forms of Pirchus must indeed take place in the middle of the Shechitah)?

(d) What do we then mean when we suggest that maybe it is weaker than the Pirchus of Raban Gamliel, but stronger than that of the Rabbanan? How will that explain Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak in view of Rebbi Eliezer's statement?

(a) Ravina, citing Sama bar Chilka'i knocks out this last suggestion too, from the Lashon of the Chachamim in our Mishnah 'ad she'Tefarches be'Yad O be'Regel'.
What does that prove?

(b) How do we know that the Chachamim are not referring to Raban Gamliel?

(c) What have we now proved?

(d) Sama bar Chilka'i in turn, was actually citing either the brother, or the father of bar Abubras? What was his name?

(e) Why did he not quote him by his own name?

Answers to questions



(a) Rava is the most stringent of all regarding the required time of Pirchus.
What does he say?

(b) And he bases his opinion on a Beraisa. From the Pasuk in Emor "Shor *O* Kesev", the Tana precludes an animal of Kil'ayim from the realm of Korbanos. What is an animal of 'Kil'ayim'?

(c) If "*O* Eiz" come to preclude a 'Nidmeh' (a baby born to a she-goat from a he-goat that resembles a lamb), what does the Tana learn from "ki Yivaled"?

(d) "Shiv'as Yamim" precludes an animal under eight days old from being brought on the Mizbe'ach.
What does the Tana learn from "Tachas Imo"?

(a) Why can 'P'rat le'Yasom' not come to preclude an animal whose mother died any time ...
  1. ... after its birth?
  2. ... before it is born?
(b) Then what *does* it mean?

(c) And how do we know that the Pasuk does not come to teach us that the mother needs to be alive on the eighth day, to enable the baby to be brought as a Korban?

(d) How does Rava then extrapolate from this Beraisa that the Pirchus of a Mesukenes needs to take place at the end of the Shechitah?

(a) The Beraisa requires a small animal to stretch out its foreleg and to withdraw it, but if it performs just one of these acts, it is considered a Mefarcheses.
What does the Tana say about ...
  1. ... its hind leg?
  2. ... a large animal?
  3. ... a bird? Which two things does the Tana cite, that renders a Mesukenes a Mefarcheses?
(b) On what grounds do we query Rava who rules like this Beraisa?

(c) How do we answer the Kashya?

(a) The Tana Kama of our Mishnah validates a Shechitah that one performs on behalf of a Nochri.
Rebbi Eliezer declares it Pasul. Does this apply even where the Nochri will only receive the diaphragm?

(b) What is Rebbi Eliezer's reason?

(c) What 'Kal va'Chomer' does Rebbi Yossi make from Mukdashin, where a Machshavah renders Pasul?

(a) Assuming that both the Tana Kama and Rebbi Eliezer concur with the opinion of Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Yossi, who holds in a Beraisa that the Machsheves Pigul of the owner of a Korban renders it Pigul, what is the basis of their Machlokes?

(b) In which case then, will the Chachamim concede to Rebbi Eliezer that the Shechitah is Pasul?

(c) In which point does Rebbi Yossi argue with the Tana Kama?

(a) Assuming that the Tana Kama argues with Rebbi Eliezer even in a case where they actually heard the Nochri specifically mention 'Le'shem Avodah-Zarah', what is then the basis of their Machlokes?

(b) In which point does Rebbi Yossi then argue with the Chachamim?

(c) From where do we learn that the Shechitah of a Shochet is considered 'Zivchei Meisim'?

(d) And from where does Rebbi Eliezer b'Rebbi Yossi learn 'Zeh Mechashev ve'Zeh Oved' by Kodshim?

Answers to questions

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