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Chulin 43

CHULIN 41-43 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.


(a) Ula lists eight categories of Tereifah.
What is his source for this?

(b) He lists Nekuvah, Pesukah, Netulah, Chasurah, Keru'ah, Derusah, Nefulah and Shevurah.
Which of the Shev Shema'ata is he coming to preclude?

(c) On what basis will we later consider infected lungs, Tereifah?

(d) Then why can we not incorporate infected kidneys in 'Nekuvah' too?

(a) What is the difference between Netulah and Chasurah?

(b) In which of the above categories do we reckon ...

  1. ... G'ludah, Shaf mi'Duchteih (dislocated) and Nidaldelu Simanim?
  2. ... Nechtechah Raglehah?
  3. ... Akiras Tzela and Chavisas Gulgoles?
(c) Chiya bar Rabah incorporates eight Tereifos in Nekuvah.
Why does he not count ...
  1. ... Nekuvas ha'Marah (like our Mishnah does)?
  2. ... Nekuvas ha'Techol (like Rav Avira Amar Rava)?
(d) How does he account for the nine Nekuvos listed in our Mishnah (besides Nekuvas ha'Marah)?
(a) How does Rebbi Yitzchak b'Rav Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan rule with regard to Nekuvas ha'Marah?

(b) How do the Rabbanan query Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah from the Pasuk in Iyov "Yishpoch la'Aretz Mererasi"?

(c) According to Rebbi Yitzchak b'Rav Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan, what did Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah reply? How did he support his answer with the same Pasuk "Yefalach Kilyosai ve'Lo Yachmol"?

(d) What is the source of his answer?

(a) We learned in our Mishnah that if the entire liver is removed and nothing remains, the animal is Tereifah.
Bearing in mind a contradiction between this Mishnah and the following one (which we will discuss later), what does Rebbi Yitzchak b'Rav Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan rule?

(b) What can we extrapolate from our Mishnah in this regard?

(c) Based on Rabah bar bar Chanah, who citing Rebbi Yochanan, rules 'Halachah ki'S'tam Mishnah', we query Yitzchak b'Rav Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan's previous ruling.
What do we answer?

(d) Seeing as both Mishnahs involved are S'tam Mishnahs, how do we know that Rabah bar bar Chanah does not concede to Rebbi Yitzchak b'Rav Yosef in this case?

(a) What does Yitzchak b'Rav Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan say about ...
  1. ... a punctured gall-bladder which is blocked by the liver?
  2. ... the stomach of a bird which is punctured but its inner sac is not?
(b) They ask what the Halachah will be in the reverse case, where the sac is punctutred but not the stomach. And they resolve it with a statement by Rav Nachman.
Which two points did Rav Nachman make regarding a bird's stomach and its sac?

(c) What does Rabah rule in a case where only one of the two skins of the Veshet is punctured?

(d) Why did he find it necessary to add that the outer one is red and the inner one, white?

(a) Mar Zutra quoting Rav Papa declares the animal Kasher, even if both skins of the Veshet are punctured, as long as they are not punctured at the same spot.
What does he say about a bird whose stomach and inner sac are both punctured but at different spots? Why is that?

(b) On what grounds does Rav Ashi object to Mar Zutra's distinction? Why does he say exactly the opposite?

(c) What did Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Yosef say to him?

(d) What does Rabah say about a membrane that grows on the Veshet as a result of a wound, blocking the wound and preventing the food from escaping?

Answers to questions



(a) We already cited Rabah's ruling that one cannot examine a Veshet from the outside.
Why not?

(b) What are the ramifications of Rabah's ruling?

(c) What did Abaye exclaim when he found Rabah examining the outer skin of the Veshet in a case of Safek Derusah?

(a) What was Rabah's reaction to that? What did he discover?

(b) Why did he then initially examine it from the outside?

(c) Assuming that it was a bird, Rabah probably examined it by first examining and Shechting the Kaneh (as we explained in the previous Perek).
What would he have had to do, if it was an animal?

(d) If we dismissed that possibility in the second Perek, why would it nevertheless have been possible here?

(a) What does Ula say about an animal in whose throat a thorn lodged?

(b) The Chidush is that we are not afraid 'Shema Hivri'.
What might this mean?

(c) We ask on what grounds Ula will differentiate between this case and Safek Derusah (if Safek Derusah is Tereifah, why is this case Kasher)?
To which case of Safek Derusah are we referring?

(d) What do we answer? What does Ula hold in the case of Safek Derusah?

(a) How do we explain the difference between Ula's case and that of someone who ...
  1. ... eats one of two pieces of fat, one Cheilev and the other, Shuman, for which he is Chayav to bring an Asham Taluy?
  2. ... Shechts with a knife, which turns out to have a defect on it?
(b) We also query him from a case of Safek Tum'ah bi'Reshus ha'Yachid (which is Tamei).
How do we counter that?

(c) How do we therefore reconcile Ula with the rulings by Safek Tum'ah?

(a) A certain Talmid-Chacham learned before Rav Kahana that Ula's previous ruling is confined to where the thorn is found loose in the throat. What will the Din then be if it is lodged there?

(b) What did Rav Kahana say to the people present?

(c) On what grounds did he disagree with the Talmid-Chacham?

(a) According to Rav, a hole in the Turbatz ha'Veshet, like a hole in the Veshet, renders the animal a Tereifah.
What is the 'Turbatz ha'Veshet'?

(b) What does Shmuel say?

(c) What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(d) According to Shmuel, how does Hagramah apply to the Veshet?

(a) According to Mari bar Mar Ukva Amar Shmuel, wherever one makes a cut and it stretches is considered the Turbatz ha'Veshet.
How does one then gauge the Veshet itself?

(b) Rav Papi, quoting Rav Bibi bar Abaye defines the latter as Turbatz ha'Veshet.
How does he then define the Veshet?

(c) Rebbi Yonah Amar Rebbi Zeira is the most radical of all.
How does he define the Turbatz ha'Veshet (see also Mesores ha'Shas)?

(d) How restricted is that area?

(a) Rava placed the Chumros of Rav and the Chumros of Shmuel on an ox belonging to the sons of Rav Ukva.
Why did he do that? What was the problem?

(b) What do we mean by the Chumros of ...

  1. ... Rav?
  2. ... Shmuel?
(c) What did Rebbi Aba rule when the case came before him?

(d) What did he instruct the sons of Rav Ukva to tell the son of Rav Yosef bar Chama? Who was the son of Rav Yosef bar Chama?

(a) Why did Rebbi Aba order Rava to pay? What was his mistake?

(b) On what principle did he order him to do so?

(c) What makes this a D'var Mishnah?

(d) Why did Rava have to pay? Why did he not simply retract?

Answers to questions

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