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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Chulin 44

CHULIN 44 (Purim d'Perazim) - l'Iluy Nishmas Harav Ze'ev Wolf Rosengarten of Zurich, Switzerland, who passed away on 14 Adar 5760, a person of "Sheleimus" in every way. Dedicated in honor of his Yahrzeit by his nephew and Talmid, Eli Rosengarten of Zurich.


(a) Mar b'rei de'Ravina queries Rava from a Beraisa.
Why did he ask the Kashya on 'the enemy of Rava'?

(b) What does the Tana say about someone who ...

  1. ... wishes to rule either like Beis Shamai or Beis Hillel?
  2. ... rules like all the leniencies of both Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel?
  3. ... rules like the stringencies of both Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel?
(c) Under what circumstances is one called a fool for adopting all the Chumros of two Poskim?

(d) How, for example, does this apply to Shedrah and Gulgoles, over which Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel argue (as we learned a little earlier)?

(e) So what should one do?

(a) Why does the Tana first say 'Hilch'sa ke'Divrei Beis Hillel', and then 've'ha'Rotze La'asos ke'Divrei Beis Shamai Oseh ... '?

(b) What did the bas-Kol announce?

(c) How do we alternatively establish even the second statement after the Bas-Kol?

(a) To answer the Kashya on Rava, we cite Rami bar Yechezkel, who declares the statement of Yehudah his brother citing Rav, to be incorrect. To which statement is he referring? Who was Yehudah his brother?

(b) In fact, Rav said that the Chachamim gave the Veshet a Shi'ur.
What do we extrapolate from there?

(c) How does this alter our understanding of Rav's ruling 'Turbatz ha'Veshet be'Chol-she'Hu' in a way that vindicates Rava?

(a) What does Rav Nachman give as the Shi'ur Veshet at the top end of the Veshet? How much should one leave before Shechting?

(b) Why can 'K'dei Tefisas Yad' not mean the amount that one holds between the tips of one's fingers?

(c) And what Shi'ur does Rav Nachman, citing Rabah bar Avuhah, give at the bottom end of the Veshet?

(d) We query this however, from a statement by Ravina.
What did Ravina in the name of ... Rav say about the last Tefach of the Veshet before the Keres? How does this contradict Rav Nachman's previous ruling?

(a) How do we amend Ravina's statement to reconcile it with Rav Nachman?

(b) Alternatively, we establish Rav (cited by Ravina) by an ox.
How does that answer the Kashya?

(a) What did Rav Nachman Amar Shmuel say about a case where the entire Turbatz ha'Veshet has been removed from the jaw?

(b) And we support this from a Mishnah later. What does the Mishnah say about 'Nital Lechi ha'Tachton'?

(c) Rav Papa asks why, according to Shmuel, the animal is not Tereifah because of Ikur Simanim.
Why is this not a Kashya on the Mishnah ('Nital ha'Lechi ... ')?

(d) How do we therefore amend Rav Nachman's statement, to answer Rav Papa's Kashya?

(e) And how do we then reconcile Rav Nachman Amar Shmuel with Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Shmuel, who rules 'Simanim she'Nidaldelu be'Ruban, Tereifah'?

Answers to questions



(a) Our Mishnah rules 'Pesukas ha'Gargeres be'Rubah'. Rav defines this as 'Rov Uvyah'.
What does that mean?

(b) Why can Rav not mean that the animal becomes a Tereifah if the majority of the thickness of the wall of the neck breaks, even before it reaches the hollow?

(c) Others quote Rav more leniently.
What do they say?

(a) What did Rav Kahana and Rav Asi comment when they found Rav examining Rov Uvyah of a Pesukas ha'Gargeres?

(b) What did Rabah bar bar Chanah do when Rav sent the animal to him for inspection?

(c) He purchased meat from it to the value of thirteen Istiri P'shiti.
If an Istira is a Sela (four Dinrim), how much is thirteen Istiri P'shiti?

(a) What problem do we have with Rabah bar bar Chanah ...
  1. ... declaring the animal Kasher?
  2. ... purchasing the meat and eating it?
(b) What do we answer? How do we justify the fact that he ...
  1. ... declared it Kasher?
  2. ... purchased meat from the animal and ate it?
(c) We also query Rabah bar bar Chanah from another Beraisa.
What does the Tana say about a judge or a witness purchasing the field or the Talis over which he has just issued a ruling ('Zikah Ve'chiyev, Timei Ve'tiher, Asar Ve'hitir') or testified?

(d) Why did that problem not exist in the case of Rabah bar bar Chanah?

(a) We cite a precedent for the previous ruling from a case where Rava purchased and ate from a Safek Tereifah that he had permitted and where bas Rav Chisda queried him from her father, who would not purchase meat from a Bechor that he had permitted.
Who was bas Rav Chisda? What business did she have with Rava?

(b) How could Rav Chisda eat from a Bechor anyway? Was he a Kohen?

(c) What did Rava answer his wife?

(d) Why was he not afraid that they might offer him a nice portion for having permitted the animal?

(a) How does Rav Chisda define a Talmid-Chacham?

(b) Who else does he define in this light?

(c) Which Pasuk in Tehilim did he ascribe to someone who learned Chumash, Mishnah, declared Asur his own Safek Tereifah and studied Gemara?

(d) How does Rav Z'vid interpret the Pasuk there "Ashrecha ve'Tov Lach"?

(a) On what grounds would Rebbi Elazar neither accept gifts from the Nasi's house, nor accept any invitation to dine with them?

(b) In which regard did Rebbi Zeira differ? Why was that?

Answers to questions

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