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Chulin 53

CHULIN 51-54 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.


(a) What did Rav reply when Rav Kahana asked him ...
  1. ... whether a cat is Doreis?
  2. ... whether a weasel is Doreis?
  3. ... whether a cat and a weasel are Doreis or not?
(b) How do we interpret ...
  1. ... his first statement?
  2. ... his second statement?
  3. ... his third statement?
(a) Rav Ashi asked whether other Tamei birds (besides those mentioned in our Mishnah) are Doreis or not (seeing as they too, are birds of prey).
What did Rav Hillel quote Rav Kahana as having said in this regard?

(b) What problem do we have with that from our Mishnah?

(c) We answer this Kashya in two ways. One answer is that a Netz (a sparrow-hawk) is Doreis birds the same size as itself, whereas other Tamei birds are only Doreis birds that are smaller than themselves.
What is the alternative answer?

(a) According to Rav Kahana in the name of Rav Shimi bar Ashi, a fox is not Doreis.
When Rav Dimi arrived from Eretz Yisrael, what episode did he relate about a fox and a sheep that took place in the bathhouse of Beis Hini?

(b) And what did the Chachamim rule?

(c) How does Rav Safra reconcile Rav Kahana with that?

(d) In the second Lashon, Rav Kahana cited Rav Shimi bar Ashi as saying that a fox is Doreis.
How does Rav Safra reconcile that with Rav Dimi, who cited the Chachamim, who rules 'Ein Derusah'? What was he referring to this time?

(e) What does Rav Yosef say about a dog?

(a) What is Abaye coming to preclude, when he confines Derisah to ...
  1. ... the Yad?
  2. ... a claw?
(b) What third condition does he add for the Derisah to be effective?

(c) What is the problem, when he adds 'Ein Derisah Ela me'Chayim'?

(d) How do we interpret 'me'Chayim? What is Abaye coming to teach us?

(a) If a lion enters a herd of oxen and a detached claw from its paw is discovered in one of the animal's backs, Rabah bar Rav Huna Amar Rav rules that the ox is not Tereifah.
Why is that?

(b) How do we query Rav's reasoning, based on the fact that most oxen tend to scratch against walls?

(c) How do we resolve the query? On what other principle of Rav is his first ruling based?

(a) Abaye qualifies Rav's basic ruling, by differentiating between an actual claw and a claw-mark (which is Tereifah).
How does he then qualify ...
  1. ... Rav's ruling regarding the claw? When will even an actual claw embedded in the ox's back render it Treifah?
  2. ... Rav's ruling regarding a claw that is still fresh? When will he declare even wet claws Tereifah?
  3. ... this latter ruling? Under what circumstances will he declare even five claws embedded in an ox's back, Kasher?
(b) Rav holds 'Ein Chosheshin le'Safek Derusah'.
What does Shmuel say?

(c) They both agree that if we are not certain that the lion even entered the herd, 'Ein Chosheshin' and all the animals are Kasher.
What will they say in a case where ...

  1. ... an animal attacked a flock of lambs and we are not sure whether it was a dog or a cat that attacked them?
  2. ... a lion entered a herd of oxen, and both the lion and the oxen are silent?
  3. ... the lion severed the head of one of the oxen?
  4. ... the lion is roaring and the oxen are lowing?
(d) In which case then, do Rav and Shmuel argue?
Answers to questions



(a) Like whom does Ameimar rule?

(b) When Rav Ashi asked Ameimar what he did with Rav's opinion, he gave one of two answers. One of them was that he did not hold like Rav.
What is the second?

(c) And he supported this with an episode that took place in Neherda'a. What did Rav do with the basket-full of birds that had been attacked by a sparrow-hawk that was brought before him?

(d) What did Shmuel subsequently do with them?

(a) How do we try to prove from there that Rav conceded that Shmuel was right?

(b) How do we counter the retort that if he had retracted, why did he not simply declare the birds Tereifah?

(c) How does this prove that he retracted? Bearing in mind that Neherda'a was Shmuel's territory, what would he have done, had he not?

(d) What have we proved, according to the (preferred) text '*Ela* Asra di'Shmuel Havah'?

(a) Why did Shmuel not ...
  1. ... throw the birds into the river as they were? Why did he make a point of breaking their necks first?
  2. ... leave them for twelve months to see whether they would survive or not (like the Din by Safek Tereifah, as we shall see later), and if they did, declare them Kasher?
  3. ... sell them to Nochrim?
  4. ... break their necks and throw them on to the trash-heap?
(b) A goose entered among the canes growing in the river and emerged with its neck bloodied.
What was the Safek?

(c) On what basis did Rav Ashi declare it Kasher?

(a) The B'nei Rebbi Chiya require examination of a Derusah's intestines.
What do they mean by 'a Derusah'?

(b) Rav Yosef points out that the B'nei Rebbi Chiya have said nothing new. In which Tana's name did Shmuel already issue this same ruling?

(c) When Ilfa asked whether 'Yesh Derusah le'Simanim', Rebbi Zeira cited Rav Chanan bar Rava.
What did Rav Chanan bar Rava say about the examination of a Derusah? How did that resolve Ilfa's She'eilah?

(a) What did Ilfa mean when he asked 'Simanim she'Nidaldelu be'Kamah'?

(b) Once again, Rebbi Zeira cited others who already dealt with Ilfa's She'eilah.
What did Rabah bar bar Chanah rule in this regard?

(a) This time it was Rav Ami on whom Rebbi Zeira made his comment.
What did Rav Ami mean when he asked 'Hismasmah Mahu'?

(b) And it was Rav Yehudah Amar Rav whom Rebbi Zeira quoted.
What distinction did Rav Yehudah make between the intestines and the thigh that was clawed?

(c) How does Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua define 'Nismasmes'? By which limb for example, would the animal be considered Tereifah?

(d) What did Rav Ashi rule, when a lung was brought before him which seemed normal whilst it was lying down, but which fell to pieces when they picked it up?

(a) Rav Nachman learns that if a thorn pierces right through to the abdominal cavity, the animal is Tereifah.
Why is that? Why do the intestines not first require Bedikah?

(b) What does he say about a Derusah?

(c) Rav Z'vid agrees with Rav Nachman's latter statement.
What does he say about Derusas ha'Simanim?

(d) What is the reason for the difference?

Answers to questions

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