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Chulin 57

CHULIN 57-58 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.


(a) What was the She'eilah regarding the basket of birds that was brought before Rava?

(b) He declared them Kasher following his examination of the Tzomes ha'Gidin of the birds.
What was he looking for? What exactly is the Tzomes ha'Gidin?

(c) Under which circumstances would he have declared them Tereifah on account of the broken leg-bones?

(d) How do the Ge'onim define 'Inkuri' (the type of bird that the basket contained)? Why is it called by that name?

(a) What does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav say about the dislocated fore-leg of an animal?

(b) He declares Tereifah ...

  1. ... the dislocated thigh-bone of a bird.
    Under which circumstances does this ruling apply?
  2. ... a dislocated wing.
(c) Both Shmuel and Rebbi Yochanan disagree with Rav's latter ruling.
What do they say?
(a) Why do we initially reject the literal interpretation of Chizkiyah's statement 'Ein Re'ah le'Of'?

(b) What does Rebbi Yochanan say about a bird's lung?

(a) Neither can we interpret Chizkiyah's words to mean that a bird's lung is not subject to Tereifus, because of the Beraisa cited by Levi (that we already discussed above).
What does the Tana there say?

(b) So we try to interpret Chizkiyah's statement to mean that when examining the innards of a bird that fell from the roof or that fell into a fire, it is not necessary to examine the lungs.
How does Rav Chanah explain this?

(c) How do we reject this explanation too, based on Rebbi Yochanan's statement?

(d) We finally explain Chizkiyah's strange statement with a quote by Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina.
What did he say?

(e) Why do we refer to Chizkiyah as 'b'Rivi'? What does this mean?

(a) What did Rabah bar Rav Huna, citing the Rabbanan of Pumbedisa in the name of Rav Yehudah, ask his father, who quoted Rav as saying that a bird with a dislocated thigh is Kasher?

(b) Rav Huna replied 'Nahara Nahara u'Pashteih'.
What does this mean ...

  1. ... literally?
  2. ... figuratively, in this context?
(c) So what does Rav really hold?

(d) How did Rav Yehudah then come to misquote him)?

(a) What did Rebbi Aba ask Rebbi Yirmiyah bar Aba (from Rav Huna Amar Rav) when he found him examining the Tzomes ha'Gidin?

(b) In reply, the latter quoted him a Mishnah in 'Beheimah ha'Maksheh', which declares an animal with its legs amputated below the knee, Kasher, above the knee, Tereifah.
What does the Tana there say about the Tzomes ha'Gidin?

(c) What did Rav comment with regard to that Mishnah, regarding birds?

(d) How does Rav now appear to contradict himself?

(a) When Rebbi Yirmiyah bar Aba remained silent, how did Rebbi Aba himself resolve the contradiction?

(b) What objection did Rebbi Yirmiyah raise to Rebbi Aba's answer?

(c) Based on what principle should it come as no surprise that if on the one hand, the entire leg is removed, the animal is Kasher, whilst on the other, if only the Tzomes ha'Gidin has been cut, it is Tereifah?

Answers to questions



(a) When Rebbi Aba arrived in Eretz Yisrael (some time after Rebbi Zeira), what did he hear the latter citing Rav, say about 'Shemutas Yerech ha'Of '?
Why was he surprised?

(b) What did he comment to Rebbi Zeira? What made him think that his version of Rav Huna Amar Rav's ruling was the right one?

(c) How did he further support his opinion from Rebbi Yirmiyah bar Aba?

(d) When Rebbi Aba asked Rebbi Zeira what he thought about the matter, he cited Rav Chiya bar Ashi Amar Rav and Rav Ya'akov bar Idi Amar Rebbi Yochanan.
What did they say?

(a) According to Rebbi Ya'akov bar Idi, what would Rebbi Yochanan have done had he been present when the Chaverim permitted Shemutas Yerech be'Of?

(b) Whom did Rebbi Chanina quote in that ruling?

(c) What did Rebbi Chanina himself do after Rebbi permitted the chicken in question?

(d) Why did he salt it?

(a) At the end of the day however, the Halachah is like Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi.
What did Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi reply when Rebbi Yossi ben Nehora'i asked him for the Shi'ur that renders 'a skylight' that is cut into the Kaneh, a Tereifah?

(b) On what basis did Rebbi Yossi ben Nehora'i query his ruling? What did they use the splinter of cane for?

(c) Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi's counter argument was based on the ruling 'Shemutas Yerech be'Of Tereifah, and the story of Rebbi Shimon ben Chalafta's chicken whose thigh-bone became dislocated. How did they seemingly cure it?

(d) What point is Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi making? How does he prove from there that a Tereifah cannot be cured?

(a) What did Rebbi Shimon ben Chalafta do with a chicken that had lost its fluff, to disprove Rebbi Yehudah, who maintains in our Mishnah that such a chicken is Tereifah?

(b) Why did he choose specifically a cloth used by coppersmiths?

(c) What does this prove? Perhaps Rebbi Yehudah will hold that a Tereifah can become stronger?

(d) They referred to Rebbi Shimon ben Chalafta as 'Askan bi'Devarim' (an activist) because he applied his theories practically.
Why did Rav Mesharshaya find it necessary to bring a second incident to support this title?

(a) What does Shlomoh Hamelech say in Mishlei about an ant? What makes the fact that it prepares its food in the summer for the winter months ahead even more remarkable?

(b) What did Rebbi Shimon ben Chalafta do on one hot summer's day, when after spreading his coat over an ant's nest (to create shade), he spotted a single ant leaving its nest?

(c) How did he set out to prove Shlomoh right from there?

(d) Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava however, rejected this proof, for any one of three reasons. Perhaps, he argued, the king was among the ants that killed the 'guilty' ant, or perhaps there was a royal edict in effect sentencing to death any ant that tricked his fellow ants.
What third argument did he present, to refute the proof that ants have no king? On which Pasuk in Shoftim is this theory based?

(e) So how do we know that Shlomoh Hamelech was right?

(a) We query Rav Huna, who states that if an animal survives twelve months, it cannot be a Tereifah, from a Beraisa. The Tana Kama holds that not having babies is a sign that an animal is a Tereifah.
What sign does Raban Shimon ben Gamliel give by which we know that an animal ...
  1. ... is not a Tereifah?
  2. ... is a Tereifah?
(b) What did the Chachamim retort when Rebbi gave the maximum survival period as thirty days?

(c) What is now the Kashya on Rav Huna?

(d) How do we answer it?

(a) We already learned that the Shi'ur of a hole that negates the Tum'as Ohel of a skull, and that makes a live animal a Tereifah, is the size of the head of a doctor's awl.
What will be the Din if there are many small holes in the skull?

(b) What did Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam relate about a man from Inbul, that seems to disprove this Halachah?

(c) How did Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar counter that? What does that prove?

(d) What does Rav Acha bar Ya'akov say about a Tereifah?

Answers to questions

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