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Chulin 77

CHULIN 76-78 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.


(a) Rava wanted to permit the fractured leg-bone of an animal which protruded from the leg, but most of which was covered half by flesh and half by tender Gidin (that were destined to become hard when the animal grew older), based on the ruling of Rebbi Yochanan.
What does Rebbi Yochanan say about such Gidin regarding the Korban Pesach?

(b) What other (monetary) reason did he present to permit them to declare the animal Kasher?

(c) Rav Papa queried Rava from Resh Lakish (in addition to the fact that it was an Isur d'Oraysa).
What does Resh Lakish say there?

(d) What problem do we have with Rava, who remained silent, and declined to answer Rav Papa? What would we have expected him to answer?

(a) The answer to the Kashya on Rava lies in a statement of Rebbi Yochanan himself?
What did Rebbi Yochanan say to Resh Lakish, when the latter quoted the Mishnah in 'ha'Or ve'ha'Rotav' 'Or ha'Rosh shel Eigel ha'Rach', to prove that the tender skin of a young animal is considered Basar (regarding Tum'as Basar and Neveilos [even though it will eventually turn hard])?

(b) What does this prove?

(a) What did Abaye do when a tiny piece of leg-bone of an animal fell to the ground?

(b) What did Rav Ada bar Masna advise the owner to do? Who was Rava b'rei de'Rav Yosef bar Chama?

(c) What did Rava rule, based on our Mishnah 'Nishbar ha'Etzem Ve'yatza le'Chutz'?

(a) Ravina asked Rava what the Din will be in a case where the Rov Basar that covers the fracture is Mislaket, Misroses or Mismasmes. 'Mislaket' means that the Rov Basar is in a number of locations. What is the meaning of 'Misroses'?

(b) 'Mismasmes' means that the flesh became rotten.
How does Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua define this?

(c) We also ask three She'eilos regarding the Basar even though it is entirely intact. We ask what the Din will be if it is either holed or split.
What is the third She'eilah?

(a) And we also ask what the Din will be if the lower third of the Basar has been removed, which we try to resolve from Ula Amar Rebbi Yochanan's earlier statement 'Or Harei Hu ke'Basar'?

(b) How do we establish the case in order to refute that proof?

(c) Finally, we ask what the Din will be if most of the Basar is intact, but a circle of flesh has been cut away. We resolve the She'eilah by quoting Rav Yehudah Amar Rav.
What did Rav say, quoting the Chachamim and the doctors?

(d) How do they qualify their statement? Under which circumstances will the wound not heal?

(e) Which other condition does Rav Papa add?

(a) What does our Mishnah say about eating a Shilya (a placenta) that one finds inside a Shechted animal?

(b) Normally, it is not Mitamei Tum'as Ochlin.
Under which circumstances *is* it considered an Ochel?

(c) In the event that the animal dies by itself, is a Shilya Mitamei Tum'as Neveilos?

(a) If part of the Shilya emerged, it may not be eaten.
Why not?

(b) This is what the Tana means when he says 'Siman V'lad bi'Veheimah'.
What does he mean when he says 'Siman V'lad be'Ishah'?

(c) What does the Tana say about a Shilya, assuming it is ...

  1. ... the Petter Rechem of an animal?
  2. ... the V'lad of a Kodshim animal? Why the difference?
(a) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Mishpatim "ve'Lo Sa'aseh ke'Ma'aseihem"

(b) This incorporates the prohibition of burying the Shilya of Mukdashin by the crossroads.
What is the significance of doing that?

(c) What else do we learn from there that one may not do with the Shilya in question?

(a) Which ruling in our Mishnah does the Beraisa learn from the Pasuk in Re'ei ...
  1. ... "Kol Beheimah ... (Osah) Tocheilu"?
  2. ... "Osah (Tocheilu)"
(b) Seeing as 'Ein Shilya be'Lo V'lad' is a fact, why does the Tana cite a Pasuk to forbid the latter?
Answers to questions



(a) whether the skin of a donkey that one cooked well (until it turned soft) is Metamei. What is the problem with this She'eilah, irrespective of whether he is referring to Tum'as Ochlin or Tum'as Neveilos?

(b) What does the Beraisa which discusses Tum'as Ochlin, list together with Or?

(c) In which cases respectively, are they Metamei?

(a) What does the Beraisa which discusses Tum'as Neveilos include besides skin, bones and nerves?

(b) What does Rabah bar Rav Chana comment on this Beraisa? How does he qualify this ruling?

(c) We conclude that Rav Yitzchak bar Nafcha is referring to Tum'as Ochlin.
Why then, does he find it necessary to ask his She'eilah regarding the Din of a donkey's skin? Why might a donkey's skin not be Mitamei Tum'as Ochlin, even if other animal skins are?

(a) How does Rebbi Elazar qualify the Din in our Mishnah 'Shilya she'Yatz'sah Miktzasah, Asurah ba'Achilah'? In which case will it be permitted?

(b) What does Rebbi Yochanan say?

(c) How do we query this version of the Machlokes, from a statement of Rebbi Yirmiyah, bearing in mind that Rebbi Elazar is the more lenient of the two opinions? What did Rebbi Yirmiyah say?

(a) So we amend the Machlokes so that Rebbi Yochanan holds like Rebbi Elazar in the first Lashon.
What does Rebbi Elazar then hold?

(b) If the placenta is not attached to the baby, why does the Tana forbid it? If there is a second baby, then where is the second Shilya?

(c) What does the Beraisa that we cite in support of Rebbi Elazar rule in a case where a woman miscarried an animal, beast or bird together with its Shilya, assuming that the Shilya ...

  1. ... is attached to the baby?
  2. ... is not attached to the baby?
(d) What does the Tana mean when he says that we place on her the Chumra of two babies?
(a) What is a 'Nidmeh'?

(b) Based on that, how does Rav Ika b'rei de'Rav Ami explain why the Tana permits throwing a Shilya that is the Petter Rechem of an animal, to the dogs?

(c) Then why does the Tana require a Shilya that is the baby of a Kodshim animal to be buried?

(a) How do Abaye and Rava qualify the prohibition of Darkei ha'Emori? Under which circumstances is it permitted?

(b) What does the Beraisa advise someone whose fruit-tree sheds its fruit prematurely to do?

(c) What will one achieve by ...

  1. ... loading it with stones?
  2. ... painting it with red paint?
(d) The source for this is the Pasuk in Tazri'a "ve'Tamei Tamei Yikra".
What is the Pasuk talking about?

(e) What does Ravina say about a date-palm that sheds its fruit prematurely?

***** Hadran Alach, 'Beheimah ha'Makshah ****

Answers to questions

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