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Chulin 128

CHULIN 128-130 - dedicated by Mrs. Rita Grunberger of Queens, N.Y., in loving memory of her husband, Reb Yitzchok Yakov ben Eliyahu Grunberger. Irving Grunberger helped many people quietly in an unassuming manner and is dearly missed by all who knew him. His Yahrzeit is 10 Sivan (which coincides with the study of Chulin 128 this year).


(a) Rebbi Yochanan too, explains the Machlokes between Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Shimon (whether the Eiver and the Basar are Muchshar via the blood of the Shechitah) like Abaye. And he asks on Rebbi Meir from his own opinion in a Beraisa.
What does Rebbi Meir say about food that has separated from its source but is still slightly attached? When is it considered attached and when is it not?

(b) What are the ramifications of the Beraisa's ruling?

(c) How does Rebbi Yochanan reconcile the two statements of Rebbi Meir (see Tiferes Ya'akov)?

(d) How do we try to reconcile Rebbi Meir's two rulings without saying 'Muchlefes ha'Shitah'?

(e) We refute that suggestion however, by citing a Beraisa, where Rebbi specifically does not differentiate between a T'vul-Yom and other Tum'os. How does Rebbi Yashiyah explain Rebbi Yochanan, to counter the Kashya that perhaps Rebbi does not differentiate, but Rebbi Meir does?

(a) According to Rava, both Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Shimon hold 'Yesh Yad le'Tum'ah'.
What is then the basis of their Machlokes, according to him?

(b) What will they hold with regard to whether a Beheimah is a Yad le'Eiver?

(c) Rav Papa maintains that both Tana'im even hold Yesh Yad le'Hechsher too. And to explain the basis of their Machlokes, he cites a Beraisa, where Rebbi Akiva rules that Cheilev of a Shechutah of the villagers (who are Nochrim) does not require Hechsher, because it already became Muchshar with the Shechitah.
What is the significance of 'villagers' here? Why do they differ from the townspeople in this regard?

(a) Rebbi Yehudah therefore queried Rebbi Akiva's ruling from something else that he taught them.
What is the difference between human food and animal food regarding Hechsher Tum'ah?

(b) So what did Rebbi Akiva say regarding Ulshin (a kind of bitter herb) that one picked and washed in order to feed an animal, and then decided to use as human food?

(c) So how does Rav Papa explain the Machlokes?

(d) Rebbi Akiva accepted Rebbi Yehudah's Kashya and retracted from the earlier ruling. If Rebbi Shimon in our Mishnah now holds like Rebbi Yehudah (and Rebbi Akiva), like whom does Rebbi Meir hold?

(a) Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Ika establishes the Machlokes where the blood squirted on to the limb after the Shechitah of the first Si'man, but was wiped off before the Shechitah of the second one. What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(b) What will they hold with regard to 'Yad le'Hechsher'?

(c) According to Rav Ashi, they are arguing over whether it is the Shechitah or the blood that is Machshir Lekabel Tum'ah.
If Rebbi Shimon holds that the Shechitah is Machshir, then why is not Machshir the Eiver and the Basar (particularly since it is effective to remove Tum'as Neveilos)?

(d) Why are the Eiver and the Basar anyway not Metamei, because the rest of the animal serves as a Yad?

(a) Rabah established the Machlokes between Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Shimon by whether a Shechted animal becomes a Yad for the Eiver or not. Now he asks whether an animal will serve as a Yad to the Eiver in its lifetime. According to which Tana is he asking?

(b) Why might it not?

(c) Whatever grows from the ground is not subject to Tum'ah, as long as it is still attached. What will be the Din of something that grows in an un-holed pot?

(d) The Tana Kama in Uktzin rules that a cucumber that one planted in an un-holed pot, which then grows until it extends beyond the walls of the pot, is considered joined to the ground, even with regard to the rest of the cucumber still inside the pot.
What does Rebbi Shimon say?

(e) What did Abaye ask according to Rebbi Shimon, regarding the branch of the cucumber that protrudes outside the pot becoming a Yad?

(a) What did Chazal say about someone who prostrates himself to half a gourd?

(b) What does Rebbi Shimon learn from the Pasuk in Shemini "mi'Kol ha'Ochel Asher Ye'achel" (with regard to Isurei Hana'ah)?

(c) How will we reconcile this with the fact that Avodah-Zarah is Metamei like a Sheretz, and according to Rebbi Akiva, even like a Nidah?

(d) Rebbi Yirmiyah asks whether the forbidden part will be considered a Yad for the part which is still permitted. What exactly is the She'eilah, if we are referring to transmitting Tum'ah from a Sheretz? What level of Tum'ah will the permitted half-gourd now adopt?

(e) What is the alternative explanation of the She'eilah, assuming that the other half ...

  1. ... was not Huchshar Lekabel Tum'ah?
  2. ... Huchshar Lekabel Tum'ah?
Answers to questions



(a) Rebbi Yehudah in the Mishnah in Uktzin declares Tahor the branch of a fig-tree that has broken off from the tree, but that is still joined via the bark.
What do the Chachamim say?

(b) Rav Papa asks whether one branch becomes a Yad for the other? What does he mean by that?

(c) What else might he mean to ask?

(a) What does the Mishnah in Nega'im learn from the Pasuk in Metzora ...
  1. ... (in connection with a corner stone in a Bayis ha'Menuga which needs to be re-placed after one week) "ve'Chiltzu es ha'Avanim"?
  2. ... (in connection with the demolition of the house after two or three weeks) "Ve'nasatz es ha'Bayis"?
(b) What She'eilah does Rebbi Zeira ask regarding the Din of Yad in the latter case?

(c) What is the outcome of all these She'eilos?

(a) We learned in our Mishnah that if the animal dies, the loose Eiver and Basar are Metamei because of Eiver min ha'Chai, but not because of Neveilah.
What is the practical difference between the two?

(b) What does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav learn from the Pasuk in Shemini "ve'Chi Yamus min ha'Beheimah"?

(c) What is Rav Yehudah Amar Rav (others cite a Beraisa) referring to when he Darshens from the same Pasuk 'Miktzas Beheimah Metam'ah, *u'Miktzas Beheimah Einah Metam'ah'*?

(d) How can he learn two things from the same Pasuk?

(a) What does Rebbi Yossi Hagelili in a Beraisa learn from "ve'Chi Yamus" and Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi, from "Beheimah", both in the same Pasuk?

(b) What is the difference between Rebbi Akiva, who requires 'Gidin va'Atzamos' and ...

  1. ... Rebbi, who requires 'Basar, Gidin va'Atzamos'?
  2. ... Rebbi Yossi Hagelili, who defines an Eiver as 'Eino Oseh Chalipin'?
(c) The same triple Machlokes is repeated by Sheratzim, where Rebbi Yossi Hagelili learns the same thing from "e'Mosam" and Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi from "Sheretz".
Why do we need two sets of Limudim? What would we have thought, had the Torah only taught us this with regard to ...
  1. ... Beheimah, that Basar Sheratzim is Metamei even in their lifetime?
  2. ... Sheratzim, that Basar Beheimah is Metamei even in its lifetime?
(a) What distinction does the Beraisa draw between someone who cut off a k'Beitzah Basar from Eiver min ha'Chai and then had the Machshavah to feed it to a Nochri, and one who had the Machshavah first and then cut it off?

(b) Why did Rebbi Asi need to ask Rebbi Zeira what they had learned in the Beis-Hamedrash that day?

(c) When Rebbi Zeira asked what his problem was, he cited the current Beraisa.
What problem did he have with its second ruling?

(d) Rebbi Zeira replied that he had had the same problem and that he had in fact, asked Rebbi Aba bar Mamal.
What did Rebbi Aba bar Mamal reply? Like whom did he establish the Beraisa?

Answers to questions

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